Why has gio never recruited from Holland

[Bigdave30 8,744]

22 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

OP said from Holland. It doesn't have to be Dutch.

An example would be that big clownshoe striker they signed, didn’t cost a fortune, from the Dutch leagues, not Dutch and does a job over here.

There has got to be some talent in that league within our budget.

[Big Al 55 9,291]

1 hour ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Good Dutch players tend to go for silly money.

They are a nation with a bit of a premium on their players, which might not be justified.

Gone are the days we can go sign Numan and the likes for £4m. Can add a 0 to the end of that figure now.

By the time you fall down to players in our price range, they are probably no much better than a Lewis Ferguson etc.

There might be the odd gem out there you can uncover, but they are probably in more abundance in other nations.

Surely having brought on board the head of Ajax youth there are one or two out of contract youth players that we should be taking a punt on, like Aribo / Bassey.

Ok perhaps even the development fee may be out of our range now.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,214]

Is it just me who thinks it’s always been a lazy as fuck coloration to say or assume that a manager should shop in a market just because they are also from that country?

Yes we have Dave Vos on the coaching staff, but Gio left Holland as a manager three years ago and since then he’s worked in China and for the City group. Being Dutch doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to carry on sitting down to watch the Eredivise every weekend.

[Big Al 55 9,291]

1 minute ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Is it just me who thinks it’s always been a lazy as fuck coloration to say or assume that a manager should shop in a market just because they are also from that country?

Yes we have Dave Vos on the coaching staff, but Gio left Holland as a manager three years ago and since then he’s worked in China and for the City group. Being Dutch doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to carry on sitting down to watch the Eredivise every weekend.

It’s more about familiarity with the market. For me it wouldn’t be GVB as such but De Vos and Maackay

[J-Maestro 11,448]

2 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Good Dutch players tend to go for silly money.

They are a nation with a bit of a premium on their players, which might not be justified.

Gone are the days we can go sign Numan and the likes for £4m. Can add a 0 to the end of that figure now.

By the time you fall down to players in our price range, they are probably no much better than a Lewis Ferguson etc.

There might be the odd gem out there you can uncover, but they are probably in more abundance in other nations.

There’s a huge difference between signing the Dutch Captain and someone like Doekhi though.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

4 hours ago, .Williamson. said:

Could probably be doing with a left winger aswell. Had enough of Kent.

Lawrence has been a miss. He was one of our main attacking threats early in the season 

Lawrence was looking like to be the player that turns wins into comfortable wins and draws into wins, his running between defensive lines is something we badly miss, arfield can do that but he's not got the legs anymore for it

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,768]

30 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Is it just me who thinks it’s always been a lazy as fuck coloration to say or assume that a manager should shop in a market just because they are also from that country?

Yes we have Dave Vos on the coaching staff, but Gio left Holland as a manager three years ago and since then he’s worked in China and for the City group. Being Dutch doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to carry on sitting down to watch the Eredivise every weekend.

If anything has shown from that mob, the manager may go to their previous league for players, in our case gios previous league is just not gonna happen

[Gaffbear 4,101]

Cos he's a fud 

[Bad Robot 21,398]

46 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Is it just me who thinks it’s always been a lazy as fuck coloration to say or assume that a manager should shop in a market just because they are also from that country?

Yes we have Dave Vos on the coaching staff, but Gio left Holland as a manager three years ago and since then he’s worked in China and for the City group. Being Dutch doesn’t automatically mean he’s going to carry on sitting down to watch the Eredivise every weekend.

it’s completely natural to know your own countries market a whole lot better than looking in a different country or continent and I disagree people will always watch their own in amongst others especially managers 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,214]

25 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

it’s completely natural to know your own countries market a whole lot better than looking in a different country or continent and I disagree people will always watch their own in amongst others especially managers 

Maybe if you are or were immediately working in that market prior to taking whatever job you take in the way that Fat Ange was in Japan, but just because you are from a country it doesn’t mean you are going to maintain a knowledge of the players of football in that country once you leave. Do you think David Moyes has a clue about who’s playing or doing well for Kilmarnock or Ross County for example?

Gio hasn’t worked in Holland for over two years, which is a decent amount of time in football, so there’s absolutely no guarantee that he’s going to be as clued up on the market as people make out. There’s one player who was in his final Feyernoord 11 in 2019 who’s still at the club now, so how much turnover do you think there’s been at clubs he wasn’t working at, and how much working knowledge of every club in the league or country do you really think he has? 

I’m not saying he has no knowledge of it, I just think it’s massively overstated as a factor.

[Bad Robot 21,398]

39 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Maybe if you are or were immediately working in that market prior to taking whatever job you take in the way that Fat Ange was in Japan, but just because you are from a country it doesn’t mean you are going to maintain a knowledge of the players of football in that country once you leave. Do you think David Moyes has a clue about who’s playing or doing well for Kilmarnock or Ross County for example?

Gio hasn’t worked in Holland for over two years, which is a decent amount of time in football, so there’s absolutely no guarantee that he’s going to be as clued up on the market as people make out. There’s one player who was in his final Feyernoord 11 in 2019 who’s still at the club now, so how much turnover do you think there’s been at clubs he wasn’t working at, and how much working knowledge of every club in the league or country do you really think he has? 

I’m not saying he has no knowledge of it, I just think it’s massively overstated as a factor.

As a home grown manager you’re always going to have a large body of contacts within your own country built up over years regardless where you’re currently applying your trade and it’s from them you’ll probably get the knowledge base rather than yourself personally.
If you’ve been out your country for 10 years or more then yes your contacts and info will no doubt drop off but you’re  always going to build new contacts and player info from any new environment which again will build up the more you are there. 

[Loyal72 11,742]

Genuinely don't care why he does or doesn't use players from Netherlands.

All I care about is the fact that useless tit is still here!

[MrMckee 3,436]

Because they already know how awful the horse shoe is 

[stuart1994 4,352]

Always felt like this is a bigger deal than it’s made out to be, genuinely couldn’t give a fuck where players are signed from. As long as they are good enough who genuinely cares, such a non issue. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

3 hours ago, J-Maestro said:

There’s a huge difference between signing the Dutch Captain and someone like Doekhi though.

Doekhi knocked us back to go be a bit part player in the German leagues.

It's not like we have actively tried to avoid signing them, it's just that the ones we have targeted (Doekhi, Simon's and Veerman) have all ended up preferring to go to places they think offer more than the SPFL.

Even then, when we actually played against Veerman and Simon's this year, they hardly set the heather alight.

We are not a particularly big draw these days, and we don't offer money that cannot be matched by plenty of other clubs.

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,214]

41 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Even then, when we actually played against Veerman and Simon's this year, they hardly set the heather alight.

Both of them, Simons in particular, have been outstanding this season. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Both of them, Simons in particular, have been outstanding this season. 

I mean when they played us. They were both a bit of a let down.

To be fair, it's mostly me being bitter as I really wanted both of those players off how they were described.

I think PSV in general are doing really well though domestically, playing good stuff.

No reason we can't also if we get a good manager in.

Yes we need new blood in, but we have still got some very capable players who are playing below themselves at the minute.

 

[Kylegib 516]

I'm not convinced Gio gets any say on who we sign.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

16 minutes ago, Kylegib said:

I'm not convinced Gio gets any say on who we sign.

I think he probably does, which explains why we have signed so much shite.

[Kylegib 516]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think he probably does, which explains why we have signed so much shite.

I think if you watch his interview after we beat PSV he was expecting new signings which obviously didn't materialise. 

[BlueSuedeSambas 54,214]

37 minutes ago, Kylegib said:

I'm not convinced Gio gets any say on who we sign.

Even though I said otherwise earlier in this thread, I think when you look under the surface there’s a lot of players about who he’s worked with who you think would be such obvious signings or targets for a guy who might want a player or two of his own who he already knows around him and in his squad.

Van Beek & Claise. One plays centre half, one plays as a sitting midfielder. Both have captained their clubs in the Eredivise this season. Arguably the two most important positions in terms of being a managers eyes and ears on the park and two guys he knows.

Nieuwkoop who plays right back for USG would have been an ideal alternative to Tav at right back. Also played for Gio at Feyernoord. The spell when we had Patterson aside, we’ve needed a decent back up to him for years so have can get rests and not burn out like we are seeing now.

Sam Larsson. We desperately need an alternative to Kent and Larsson scored 16 goals and had 17 assists in 70 games under Gio playing from the left. Only 30 and moved to Antalyaspor for free this Summer.

Dylan Vente. Worked under Gio at Feyernoord as a youngster. Now plays for Roda JC where he’s scored 42 goals and has 14 assists in 75 games, which is an incredible record. The sort of player who should fit the profile of what we go after to near perfection.

I don’t think Gio is the man for us, and he’s not without blame, but I do think the strategy of Ross Wilson has meant he’s been boxing one handed the whole time he’s been here. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

3 minutes ago, Kylegib said:

I think if you watch his interview after we beat PSV he was expecting new signings which obviously didn't materialise. 

I don't think he gets free reign, but I think he gets a say on if we bring them in or not.

I don't think he is just thrown players and told to get on with it. He says it works the same here as it has at his previous clubs.

Most clubs these days will have a scouting department, and then the director of football and manager both have input to who they go after.

Gerrard obviously had a say as well, and at the same time wanted even more control as seen by his supposed anger at not being able to get nisbett.

[Kylegib 516]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I don't think he gets free reign, but I think he gets a say on if we bring them in or not.

I don't think he is just thrown players and told to get on with it. He says it works the same here as it has at his previous clubs.

Most clubs these days will have a scouting department, and then the director of football and manager both have input to who they go after.

Gerrard obviously had a say as well, and at the same time wanted even more control as seen by his supposed anger at not being able to get nisbett.

Yes but I don't see Gio as a strong enough character to put his point of view towards Wilson regarding signings.

I'm of the opinion that Nisbet would've done well in our side at the time however no way should we have been paying anywhere near the £4m fee that was rumoured as there would've been far better strikers available for that price. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, Kylegib said:

Yes but I don't see Gio as a strong enough character to put his point of view towards Wilson regarding signings.

I'm of the opinion that Nisbet would've done well in our side at the time however no way should we have been paying anywhere near the £4m fee that was rumoured as there would've been far better strikers available for that price. 

Maybe he isn't strong enough, which is on Gio.

It does not mean that he doesn't have a say, just that he is not good enough as a manager to effectively do his job.

What you are saying is that he does have a say, it's just that he always chooses to agree with his bosses idea, even if he does not believe it is the best thing to do.

It's just another reason for why he should be replaced.

We are working exactly the same way as almost every other club in world football, and the manager will be getting the same type of input that everyone else has.

Our manager just isn't very good.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

You know this is a really good question when you compare who Advocaat brought from his home country and how much they transformed the team, In fact even on a much smaller scale anjeball brought in who he knows from the j league so it's obviously not uncommon