Europe 23/24

[BlueKnight87 17,882]

On 02/07/2023 at 00:24, King Jela said:

I think we'll hate the new Champions League format when it comes in. 

Yep it feels again like a way to help the bigger leagues.

Look at the way they are allocating the extra 4 spots:

One place will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking.

One place will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called “Champions Path”.

The final two places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (total number of points obtained divided by the number of participating clubs)

[GersInCanada 7,775]

As long as we make the CL play off round we are in a good place. It's either defeat, 5M in consolation and pot 1 in the Europa or victory and pot 3 in the CL.

The big carrot is hanging around until we have secured our place in the club world cup which if achieved means an awful amount of cash.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,511]

1 hour ago, The Godfather said:

Money wise we need the CL. 

It's always the main goal 

Purely money wise it would be better to miss out on the CL and get the CWC rather than getting the CL and missing out on the CWC.

Ideally getting the CL and also getting the CWC would be ideal, but I think that would be highly unlikely.

[Brubear 2,973]

2 hours ago, The Godfather said:

Money wise we need the CL. 

It's always the main goal 

World club cup worth more the CL which is why for this year only EL might actually be more financially beneficial. 

[Brubear 2,973]

2 hours ago, esquire8 said:

We made the same money roughly being pumped 6 times in the CL group stage games as we did making the EL final.

Ideal scenario is CL qualification then getting 3rd and qualify for the EL later stages.

My comment was only in context of making WCC which is worth more than either CL or EL. 

[Brubear 2,973]

1 hour ago, Roy Hobbs said:

You don't get any points for EL qualification.

I never said you did. You get 3 pounts for getting into EL groups and 4 points for getting into CL groups. 

[OhW 4,693]

57 minutes ago, BlueKnight87 said:

Yep it feels again like a way to help the bigger leagues.

Look at the way they are allocating the extra 4 spots:

One place will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking.

One place will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called “Champions Path”.

The final two places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (total number of points obtained divided by the number of participating clubs)

I remember reading that the majority of the cash generated from the Europa Conference League actually goes into the Champions League prize pot. It was created purely to generate more money for the biggest clubs and help UEFA fight off the Super League. 

[Roy Hobbs 2,963]

15 minutes ago, Brubear said:

I never said you did. You get 3 pounts for getting into EL groups and 4 points for getting into CL groups. 

You don't get any points for EL group stage qualification. 

Edit: You get a minimum of 3 points but this isn't in addition to points accrued through performance.

The champions league is 4 plus points accrued.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,511]

3 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

You don't get any points for EL group stage qualification. 

You get a minimum of 3 points, but if you earn 3 points or more through results in the group, then you essentially dont get the minimum points added on.

Crucially though, as top seeds I would hope that we would finish in at least the top 2 slots in the EL Groups. Top spot nets you 4 extra points, 2nd nets you an extra 2 points. 

[BuffaloUSAGers 1,434]

5 hours ago, GersInCanada said:

As long as we make the CL play off round we are in a good place. It's either defeat, 5M in consolation and pot 1 in the Europa or victory and pot 3 in the CL.

The big carrot is hanging around until we have secured our place in the club world cup which if achieved means an awful amount of cash.

If Dinamo Zagreb do not get to the CL and Ajax wins its Europa League qualifiers, Rangers would be in pot 2. Another two group stage games against Liverpool?

[BuffaloUSAGers 1,434]

What is the context of the concern with coefficient points? If it is the country coefficient for the CWC, then I can understand. If it is staying ahead of septic for the CWC, today our qualifying coefficient for the CWC, with one more year to add, is 38 and septic’s is 15. If we win no games of European football this year our CWC four year qualifying coefficient would be 41. septic would have to win the European Cup to best that.

[GersInCanada 7,775]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloUSAGers said:

What is the context of the concern with coefficient points? If it is the country coefficient for the CWC, then I can understand. If it is staying ahead of septic for the CWC, today our qualifying coefficient for the CWC, with one more year to add, is 38 and septic’s is 15. If we win no games of European football this year our CWC four year qualifying coefficient would be 41. septic would have to win the European Cup to best that.

We go into this season 12th in the coefficient table. Only the top 12 qualify. We have other clubs within a handful of points of us. With a prize fund starting at 25M, not to mention the prestige, qualification is huge for us.

[Brubear 2,973]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloUSAGers said:

What is the context of the concern with coefficient points? If it is the country coefficient for the CWC, then I can understand. If it is staying ahead of septic for the CWC, today our qualifying coefficient for the CWC, with one more year to add, is 38 and septic’s is 15. If we win no games of European football this year our CWC four year qualifying coefficient would be 41. septic would have to win the European Cup to best that.

celtic aren't the issue, we will be the best Scottish club. Our biggest threat are club Brugge, the top ranked Belgium club. They are only a few points behind us and are going to be in pot 1 of ECL, unless there is a shock in their qualifier. They are more than likely to get 4 or 5 wins in their group so probably have c. 10 points this season before even considering knockout stage performance which could bring another c. 4 points. That means we need a minimum of 12 coefficient points so the debate is whether CL or EL is best route to secure that. 

[6superbarry6 14,618]

Marseille making some good signings looking like a really strong squad much rather face PSV in the play off round they should be weaker than last season with Gakpo away and Simmons and Sangare looking like they’re away. 

[Brubear 2,973]

On 13/07/2023 at 14:15, BlueKnight87 said:

Yep it feels again like a way to help the bigger leagues.

Look at the way they are allocating the extra 4 spots:

One place will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking.

One place will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called “Champions Path”.

The final two places will go to the associations with the best collective performance by their clubs in the previous season (total number of points obtained divided by the number of participating clubs)

That last one is clearly designed to be both from the top 4 leagues. 

[Darth Bear 15,723]

On 13/07/2023 at 12:54, Brubear said:

You only get 1 additional point for qualifying for the CL groups versus EL groups. You then get equal points for wins and draws whether in CL or EL. As we would be in Pot 1 of EL and Pot 3 of CL and the teams in CL are on the whole much better standard it is highly unlikely that even getting 3rd in CL group and EL after christmas would gain more points the EL group and being in top 2. 

I would always advocate for us being in CL but for this one season it would be less of a blow not qualifying than it would be in other seasons. 

 

I know exactly what the different results could mean for us and if we don't make the champions league it won't be the worst thing ever but I would still rather that we did, won the league for automatic qualification next year and have a bonus of playing at the club world cup. 

It is doable. 

[Brubear 2,973]

15 hours ago, Darth Bear said:

I know exactly what the different results could mean for us and if we don't make the champions league it won't be the worst thing ever but I would still rather that we did, won the league for automatic qualification next year and have a bonus of playing at the club world cup. 

It is doable. 

Agreed. Exactly what I was saying, normally would want CL but if we were to miss out this year would be less of a blow than other years. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,511]

15 hours ago, Darth Bear said:

I know exactly what the different results could mean for us and if we don't make the champions league it won't be the worst thing ever but I would still rather that we did, won the league for automatic qualification next year and have a bonus of playing at the club world cup. 

It is doable. 

I think to be honest that CL qualification would mean the end to our CWC dreams, but wouldnt say no to it either.

There is a good chance we could fail to make the CL and then also fail to make the CWC, so would definitely take the CL cash as the safest bet.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 69,613]

Simons leaving PSV as well

[Davy Vandenbroucke 27,010]

16 minutes ago, The Specky Non Liar - Sometimes said:

Simons leaving PSV as well

Wouldn’t shock me if they get knocked out in the third qualifying round, if they draw Genk or Dnipro/Panathinaikos I can see it being tricky for them as they’ve lost quite a few players.

[Davy Vandenbroucke 27,010]

Really hope we get either Sturm Graz or Backa Topola in QR3, purely for the fact we’ll know immediately who we’re playing and the dates/allocations, etc.

Drawing Dnipro/Panathinaikos or Genk/Servette means we won’t know any details until the week before we play them, so the flights will inevitably be more expensive.

[Bad Robot 21,513]

20 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think to be honest that CL qualification would mean the end to our CWC dreams, but wouldnt say no to it either.

There is a good chance we could fail to make the CL and then also fail to make the CWC, so would definitely take the CL cash as the safest bet.

It’s got to be the CL cash due to the risk better ‘a bird in the hand’ and all that… 

[Albertz85 1,359]

If we get knocked out in CL 3rd round qualifier do we have to play EL playoff?

Seem to remember last year chat was if we lost to USG our seeding meant we went straight into EL group stage.

[Darth Bear 15,723]

22 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I think to be honest that CL qualification would mean the end to our CWC dreams, but wouldnt say no to it either.

There is a good chance we could fail to make the CL and then also fail to make the CWC, so would definitely take the CL cash as the safest bet.

There is a chance that Brugge won't even qualify for the group stages isn't there? Same with everything we want our destiny in our own hands, if we are good enough we will qualify. I'm not going to worry about what anyone else does it is what we do ourselves that matters. 

 

 

[RM Monitor And Standards Officer 112,868]

12 minutes ago, Darth Bear said:

There is a chance that Brugge won't even qualify for the group stages isn't there? Same with everything we want our destiny in our own hands, if we are good enough we will qualify. I'm not going to worry about what anyone else does it is what we do ourselves that matters. 

 

 

Yes but they’re going to half to be pretty bad not to make the groups