The confidence in Michael Beale

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Not if he hasnt lost a single game in 3 years and got the best winning rate of any Rangers manager in history.

What manager do you realistically think we could attract to improve on those kinds of results?

You keep your manager and hope that someone takes their manager, or their unreal form drops.

You absolutely do not sack a manager who would obviously be one of the highest performing managers in world football to replace him with Jim Goodwin.

One that wins titles.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

We’ve ALWAYS dropped points to dross. We’ll continue to drop points to dross.

 

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

One that wins titles.

If you say the new manager will drop points to the dross, then he most likely isnt going to get 108 points in the league, so I would stick with Beale.

Answer me this. if Beale next year get to the Champions League final, narrowly losing out to Man City in a classic 5-4 game, we get 108 points in the league and lose on goals scored by one goal, and then lose both cup finals to them on penalties. Are you honestly telling me you think he would be sacked?

If not, then im right. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

 

If you say the new manager will drop points to the dross, then he most likely isnt going to get 108 points in the league, so I would stick with Beale.

Answer me this. if Beale next year get to the Champions League final, narrowly losing out to Man City in a classic 5-4 game, we get 108 points in the league and lose on goals scored by one goal, and then lose both cup finals to them on penalties. Are you honestly telling me you think he would be sacked?

If not, then im right. 

If he repeatedly fails to win the title, yes. Beale (nor anyone else) is leading us to the CL final. 
 

The likelihood of one team getting 108 points in the league, let alone two in the same season is so small there’s morechance of me being our starting CB this season and I’m currently waiting for a knee replacement. 

[theblueoysterbar 19,699]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

If he repeatedly fails to win the title, yes. Beale (nor anyone else) is leading us to the CL final. 
 

The likelihood of one team getting 108 points in the league, let alone two in the same season is so small there’s morechance of me being our starting CB this season and I’m currently waiting for a knee replacement. 

There's still every chance you could be signed as a CB though.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, theblueoysterbar said:

There's still every chance you could be signed as a CB though.

With the record points total in the Premiership sitting at 106, there might just be a spot for an arthritic 36-year-old who has never kicked a ball at CB 😂

[bluenoz 30,975]

10 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

 

If you say the new manager will drop points to the dross, then he most likely isnt going to get 108 points in the league, so I would stick with Beale.

Answer me this. if Beale next year get to the Champions League final, narrowly losing out to Man City in a classic 5-4 game, we get 108 points in the league and lose on goals scored by one goal, and then lose both cup finals to them on penalties. Are you honestly telling me you think he would be sacked?

If not, then im right. 

 

You started out on page one being pessimistic but tried to say you were only being realistic. Now you hypothetically (and unrealistically) mention Rangers getting to the CL Final, lol 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, The Dude said:

If he repeatedly fails to win the title, yes. Beale (nor anyone else) is leading us to the CL final. 
 

The likelihood of one team getting 108 points in the league, let alone two in the same season is so small there’s morechance of me being our starting CB this season and I’m currently waiting for a knee replacement. 

Of course the likelihood is unbelievably small, its the most extreme example to demonstrate the principle that the manner of defeat matters.

If our manager is doing an incredibly good job, but we are losing out to another manager who is doing an incredibly good job, but with more money, then it has to be taken into account.

Beale isnt going to lose the league with 108 points, but its perfectly possible that he loses it with mid or high 90s points. Many of our fans would demand he was sacked for this, and to not take into account other factors, would just be silly. Even if celtic had a transfer budget of say £30m this year.

You would I assume given the circumstances probably think he deserves more time and would not be calling for his immediate sacking even though he 'failed his remit' this year.

I would evaluate his performance over the year in terms of results before sacking him. If he was doing a very, very good job, yet loses out on a tight title race, then I would hold onto him and hope that a team comes in for their manager and that he leaves.

I would think it was a bigger risk to sack a manger who was visibly improving the team and getting great points tallies but narrowly losing the league than replacing him with someone who has a good chance of performing worse.

Its that simple.

[OrangeRab 2,781]

14 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

 

If you say the new manager will drop points to the dross, then he most likely isnt going to get 108 points in the league, so I would stick with Beale.

Answer me this. if Beale next year get to the Champions League final, narrowly losing out to Man City in a classic 5-4 game, we get 108 points in the league and lose on goals scored by one goal, and then lose both cup finals to them on penalties. Are you honestly telling me you think he would be sacked?

If not, then im right. 

I do agree with you somewhat. Of course the club wants the manager to win titles. But equally it takes two to tango—a fact many on here seem to forget. We could win the league with a shit manager b/c celtic are shit and vice versa. 

Gio was sacked because he lost 2 leagues. But also because he was putting up points that aren’t good enough to win it these days. 
There’s a big difference putting up 98 points and losing the league and 89.

On top of that our play style, fitness and recruitment were poor.

It’s not true to just say “manager remit to win titles”. It’s the boards job to put the best man capable of maximising the chance of winning cups and titles. It’s a subtle but important difference.

If Beale gets pipped to the league next year by putting up 100 points and gets pipped b/c celtic spend 30 million to supplement a team that just stuck up almost 100 points and almost broke the domestic scoring record.

Then I really doubt the board would sack him. It’s their job to give us the best chance of winning the title. But we aren’t the only factor here.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, bluenoz said:

You started out on page one being pessimistic but tried to say you were only being realistic. Now you hypothetically (and unrealistically) mention Rangers getting to the CL Final, lol 

IMO, he should be sacked if he doesnt at least make the semis.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

I do agree with you somewhat. Of course the club wants the manager to win titles. But equally it takes two to tango—a fact many on here seem to forget. We could win the league with a shit manager b/c celtic are shit and vice versa. 

Gio was sacked because he lost 2 leagues. But also because he was putting up points that aren’t good enough to win it these days. 
There’s a big difference putting up 98 points and losing the league and 89.

On top of that our play style, fitness and recruitment were poor.

It’s not true to just say “manager remit to win titles”. It’s the boards job to put the best man capable of maximising the chance of winning cups and titles. It’s a subtle but important difference.

If Beale gets pipped to the league next year by putting up 100 points and getting pipped b/c celtic spend 30 million to supplement a team that just stuck up almost 100 points and almost broke the domestic scoring record.

 

Then I really doubt the board would sack him. It’s their job to give us the best chance of winning the title. But we aren’t the only factor here.

Exactly.

Their manager just got poached because of their results. Im hoping Rogers flops this time, but if he performs very well, then he will be back off down south to the next EPL team that flirts with him, I dont care what he says about staying the 3 years.

If Beale was still here and posting great results, then you just have to hope that the next manager they bring in is a flop and underperforms.

If we start to regress and ship too many points to other teams, or get a complete showing up in the old firms, then this is the kinda thing that will cause his position to become untenable. Not narrowly losing to a team with a bigger budget.

[bluenoz 30,975]

24 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

IMO, he should be sacked if he doesnt at least make the semis.

 

That's the most bizarre sentence I've read in a long time, mate.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,172]

1 hour ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Nope, its because we were playing honking and shipping points to the dross.

If we had lost the league on goal difference, playing really well and Gio had the credit from nearly winning a Euro trophy, he would still have been in a job.

Like I say, being competitive against them, whilst beating the dross consistently is what is expected.

If they happen to be on blinding form matching us and edging us at the end with a far bigger budget, but we are showing signs of improvement, then the manager would get extra time.

If however the team stagnates, or regresses, we get a humbling and quick euro exit, ship points to the dross of the league and gets a complete showing up in the games against them, then it would be curtains.

Think you're genuinely in a minority of one with that point of view.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, The Specky Non Liar - Sometimes said:

Think you're genuinely in a minority of one with that point of view.

Not really, as being competitive with them and consistently beating the rest will almost always see us right in the hunt for the title.

I think that allot of us will be willing to accept that, as long as they see progress and not that signs of decline that we seen with GVB for instance.

Rogers is obviously a good manager, I dont buy into the folk writing him off. I would rather they had ended up with just about any of the other names they were linked with.

Give a good manager a head start with an established squad and also if the rumours are true, a far bigger transfer budget, then we are always likely to be underdogs.

If both teams play very well over the course of the season, but they edge it, I think allot of folk will be willing to give Beale more time.

Im just firmly against the idea of 'lose the title, and automatically sack him' of which there are already folk holding that view.

You have to take more into it than that.

Sure, if things go to absolute shit, we fail to make the CL, get a doing in the Europa, drop points all over the place and go out of the cups with a whimper, then ill be out calling for Beales head.

If however we are playing well but go out fighting in the comps and lose to a team also on form, then you have to balance things out and the decision is a bit more nuanced.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,819]

5 hours ago, The Dude said:

If he repeatedly fails to win the title, yes. Beale (nor anyone else) is leading us to the CL final. 
 

The likelihood of one team getting 108 points in the league, let alone two in the same season is so small there’s morechance of me being our starting CB this season and I’m currently waiting for a knee replacement. 

I think there's some who will want him gone next season if he fails to win the title. Regardless of whether the scum spend multiple times his transfer budget whilst having a stronger squad to build on. Fuck, I reckon the first dropped points will have the OP telling us Beale is a failure and needs to go.

Like with Gerrard I need to see growth and progression in his squad, playing style, results generally etc, and believe that the rate of progress will win us the title (likely against the odds). That may well not be next season as much as that will pain us all, but like with Gerrard I do believe he's capable of doing it in the next couple of years.

[.Williamson. 82,763]

Full faith in the bealedozer 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,819]

7 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Exactly.

Their manager just got poached because of their results. Im hoping Rogers flops this time, but if he performs very well, then he will be back off down south to the next EPL team that flirts with him, I dont care what he says about staying the 3 years.

If Beale was still here and posting great results, then you just have to hope that the next manager they bring in is a flop and underperforms.

If we start to regress and ship too many points to other teams, or get a complete showing up in the old firms, then this is the kinda thing that will cause his position to become untenable. Not narrowly losing to a team with a bigger budget.

We really weren't that far off them even with Postecoglou in charge. Them keeping their best players available helped them.  Our injury list, several having chucked it and offering fuck all, plus gaffes costing crucial goals, abysmal finishing and a typical biased Clancy wrong decision hurt us in big games.

Folk say they chucked it after the league was won, I think it might have been more a case they used their wider squad which isn't close to as strong as their starting 11.

I hope we can capitalise this season more because a new manager brings them uncertainty and change, their players didn't sign for him etc rather than because I think Postecoglou was amazing or Rodgers a dud. Ultimately we need to focus first and foremost on ourselves and hit the ground running and gel quickly into an effective starting 11 with a much more influential back up squad. 

Exciting times ahead imo.

[graeme_4 34,683]

8 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

 

If you say the new manager will drop points to the dross, then he most likely isnt going to get 108 points in the league, so I would stick with Beale.

Answer me this. if Beale next year get to the Champions League final, narrowly losing out to Man City in a classic 5-4 game, we get 108 points in the league and lose on goals scored by one goal, and then lose both cup finals to them on penalties. Are you honestly telling me you think he would be sacked?

If not, then im right. 

You are losing the plot.

If you don’t win the league your coat is on a shoogly peg, if you don’t win it 3 years in a row you are long gone. 

[AGM_72 3,652]

8 hours ago, OrangeRab said:

I do agree with you somewhat. Of course the club wants the manager to win titles. But equally it takes two to tango—a fact many on here seem to forget. We could win the league with a shit manager b/c celtic are shit and vice versa. 

Gio was sacked because he lost 2 leagues. But also because he was putting up points that aren’t good enough to win it these days. 
There’s a big difference putting up 98 points and losing the league and 89.

On top of that our play style, fitness and recruitment were poor.

It’s not true to just say “manager remit to win titles”. It’s the boards job to put the best man capable of maximising the chance of winning cups and titles. It’s a subtle but important difference.

If Beale gets pipped to the league next year by putting up 100 points and gets pipped b/c celtic spend 30 million to supplement a team that just stuck up almost 100 points and almost broke the domestic scoring record.

Then I really doubt the board would sack him. It’s their job to give us the best chance of winning the title. But we aren’t the only factor here.

Yes but if that continued for more than one season he'd be gone. It's his job to find a way to win, whatever the structural imbalances are. 

[ElBufalo20 7,916]

The last time we had a manager for the full season we won the league so here’s hoping he sees the season out.

[FlippinEck 3,708]

You simply have to have confidence, belief no matter what. I would flip the question and ask what has he done to not give anyone confidence going forward? The two cup games were sakala sitters away from potentially different outcomes. We were a bawhair away from winning in January against them and a freak goal flattened us after a dominant start at Pittodrie . The only blips imo. 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

48 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

You are losing the plot.

If you don’t win the league your coat is on a shoogly peg, if you don’t win it 3 years in a row you are long gone. 

Not if he had dropped 4 points in an unbeaten league campaign you dont.

That would just be stupid.

[AGM_72 3,652]

Mitre's vision for Rangers is to finish second on goal difference in perpetuity and we'll all be very happy with that. We'll be showing progress... by finishing 2nd again and again. 

This is good trolling tbf.

[The Dude 20,026]

9 hours ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Of course the likelihood is unbelievably small, its the most extreme example to demonstrate the principle that the manner of defeat matters.

If our manager is doing an incredibly good job, but we are losing out to another manager who is doing an incredibly good job, but with more money, then it has to be taken into account.

Beale isnt going to lose the league with 108 points, but its perfectly possible that he loses it with mid or high 90s points. Many of our fans would demand he was sacked for this, and to not take into account other factors, would just be silly. Even if celtic had a transfer budget of say £30m this year.

You would I assume given the circumstances probably think he deserves more time and would not be calling for his immediate sacking even though he 'failed his remit' this year.

I would evaluate his performance over the year in terms of results before sacking him. If he was doing a very, very good job, yet loses out on a tight title race, then I would hold onto him and hope that a team comes in for their manager and that he leaves.

I would think it was a bigger risk to sack a manger who was visibly improving the team and getting great points tallies but narrowly losing the league than replacing him with someone who has a good chance of performing worse.

Its that simple.

Meanwhile, in the real world…

First of all, I’ve not said failure to win the title in his first full season would see him sacked, repeated failure to win the title would. 

Doing a ‘very good job’ as Rangers manager doesn’t include finishing behind Celtic year after year. If that’s the bar for doing a ‘very good job’ as Rangers boss we’re as well chucking it.
 

If he’s failed, repeatedly, to win anything why would he be given more chances? Should we have given Pedro more time? What about Murty? We were in a better position when he was binned than we were when he took charge. 

[The Dude 20,026]

21 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Not if he had dropped 4 points in an unbeaten league campaign you dont.

That would just be stupid.

So if he has a season where he wins more points than any team in the history of the league? 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So if he has a season where he wins more points than any team in the history of the league? 

Sorry, that should read either dropping 6 points or 8 points in an unbeaten season.

Highest points total in a losing season would actually require 2 losses I think.

Otherwise, would have to be 4 draws. Which would be less points.