The Billy Boys (Reprise)

[Guest]

aye because an RM poll will sort this once and for all.

Even if the entire forum agreed to one set of words, members of other forums would just go against it and vice versa

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Exactly, D'Art.

We have to box clever on this one.

It's UEFA who illogically and immorally banned "all versions" allegedly.

In Scotland, we have a law that means the use of term, such as "fenian" can be considered sectarian, prejudicial and criminal, based upon the perception of the alleged victim and complainant. This emphasis on perception is misguided as it is a rather vague, immeasurable and, crucially, subjective and ambiguous concept.

It is wrong and flawed for a law in a democratic state to be so clearly open to abuse, leaving the door open for all sorts of imagined wrongs to be invented.

Nonetheless, that is the reality that we must deal with.

A lyric change is the only safe and sensible way forward.

Using the "offensive term" can lead to criminal proceedings, so it's best avoided when other options are available. If you don't use the term in question, you cannot be guilty of any breach.

UEFA will be another case, but their inconsistency in allowing other clubs to have other versions of the song, makes the threat of an RFFF funded case at the Court of Arbitration for Sport a likely success, and something that UEFA, burdened with their own internal issues, may be unwilling to oppose.

However, we must stick to the lyric change, whichever one of the various phrasings currently on the go we decide to adopt.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

Exactly, D'Art.

We have to box clever on this one.

It's UEFA who illogically and immorally banned "all versions" allegedly.

In Scotland, we have a law that means the use of term, such as "fenian" can be considered sectarian, prejudicial and criminal, based upon the perception of the alleged victim and complainant. This emphasis on perception is misguided as it is a rather vague, immeasurable and, crucially, subjective and ambiguous concept.

It is wrong and flawed for a law in a democratic state to be so clearly open to abuse, leaving the door open for all sorts of imagined wrongs to be invented.

Nonetheless, that is the reality that we must deal with.

A lyric change is the only safe and sensible way forward.

Using the "offensive term" can lead to criminal proceedings, so it's best avoided when other options are available. If you don't use the term in question, you cannot be guilty of any breach.

UEFA will be another case, but their inconsistency in allowing other clubs to have other versions of the song, makes the threat of an RFFF funded case at the Court of Arbitration for Sport a likely success, and something that UEFA, burdened with their own internal issues, may be unwilling to oppose.

However, we must stick to the lyric change, whichever one of the various phrasings currently on the go we decide to adopt.

Good post. I like others would like to see the 'Sing The Sash and Derry's Walls' version adopted. How can this be achieved?

Just one idea - a Hello, Hello' game at Ibrox targeted for a significant league match. Fans groups to setup a 'Hello, Hello' card display. Words of the 'new version' printed on each card. Get every man, woman and child in the stadium belting out the new words loud and proud. One massive united show of who we are and a GIRUY to our detractors. I believe this would lead to over 90% of our fans embracing the new version. We keep our anthem and the club stays out of trouble.

Perhaps the cards could be reversible and when turned show the words 'Fuck /Your Speirs', probably a nice thought but most likely OTT.

[LeeWallaceRFC 3,920]

Another vote for we'll sing the sash and Derry's walls.

[plumbGER 24,518]

Another vote for we'll sing the sash and Derry's walls.

So many in favour of this,we are all 'apologists' according to that earlier poster

[Prince George 601]

I agree with We'll sing the sash and Derry's walls surrender all you'll die. Sing it loud and proud.

[Prince George 601]

I agree with We'll sing the sash and Derry's walls surrender all you'll die. Sing it loud and proud.

[vinstar 4]

Hello, Hello we are the Billy boys,
Hello, Hello you'll know us by our noise,
No one likes us, we don't care
Surrender or you'll die

How about that?

As long as we can get roaring the Hello Hello part, this is where the power is.

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Change one word and one word only - and even that doesn't sit well with me considering they refer to themselves as Unrepentant Fenian Bastards.

[dummiesoot 16,006]

Change one word and one word only - and even that doesn't sit well with me considering they refer to themselves as Unrepentant Fenian Bastards.

That doesn't matter a Fuck, in the states black gang people call themselves n*****s that does not matter if you are white saying it you will be a racist. So much my annoyance we need to change to get our anthem back.

[Ferris Bueller 1,569]

Looks like the usual discussions that happen everytime this gets sung are dying away again, which is a pity because based on the comments in this thread their seemed a real concencus to update/modernise the words and get this anthem reclaimed because as heard at the Hibs game nothing compares to the atmosphere created when this is belted out by a packed Ibrox.

Don't know if any on here are members of any of the many fans groups? But seems the perfect time to get them raising this with the club to try and instigate the changes required.

[Bradford72 1]

I Don't get why more action hasn't been taken by the fans over this, the tims are fighting back at the oppression of football fans so why cant we? I hate them as much as the next Rangers fan but both taking action together could work, it worked in Turkey so why not over here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2608879/Besiktas-Fenerbahce-Galatasaray-fans-unite-protest-against-Turkish-e-ticket-allows-police-snoop-private-data-bank-accounts.html

[Virtuoso 27,180]

That doesn't matter a Fuck, in the states black gang people call themselves n*****s that does not matter if you are white saying it you will be a racist. So much my annoyance we need to change to get our anthem back.

I understand your sentiments but use of Fenian doesn't constitute racism as they're not a race - so the racism aspect is a moot point.

My problem is that the powers to be in this backward shithole of a country have decided that Fenian = Roman Catholic when we all know and every man and his dog in the street knows it's aimed at the Republican sympathisers and those who sing the praises of various proscribed groups.

How can they say that singing it is aimed at Roman Catholics, when a percentage of the Bheast support are Protestant and we have a number of RC's amongst our support who sing it. To say it's ambiguous is an understatement.

It will only take one person to go not guilty the whole way (with a decent lawyer) and receive a not guilty verdict for this to be turned on it's head.

Another point, when Ajax were fined for displaying their Fenian Bastards banner - wasn't that due to the use of the word Bastards? (not 100% on this though).

[Guest]

Aye Ajax fans said they meant to write "fuckin wankers" tho

[Copland bear 7,966]

I see a Rev in N Ireland walked free from court after remarks he made against Muslims in his sermon that was posted online.

He said a lot worse than the lyrics of the Billy boys could ever mean yet he got not guilty on all 3 charges as he was allowed to express his right of freedom of speech.

This song being banned is on borrowed time legally.

They have no reason to ban this song, this song was banned because our haters demanded it was banned.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

I understand your sentiments but use of Fenian doesn't constitute racism as they're not a race - so the racism aspect is a moot point.

My problem is that the powers to be in this backward shithole of a country have decided that Fenian = Roman Catholic when we all know and every man and his dog in the street knows it's aimed at the Republican sympathisers and those who sing the praises of various proscribed groups.

How can they say that singing it is aimed at Roman Catholics, when a percentage of the Bheast support are Protestant and we have a number of RC's amongst our support who sing it. To say it's ambiguous is an understatement.

It will only take one person to go not guilty the whole way (with a decent lawyer) and receive a not guilty verdict for this to be turned on it's head.

Another point, when Ajax were fined for displaying their Fenian Bastards banner - wasn't that due to the use of the word Bastards? (not 100% on this though).

Funnily enough the powers that be decided it was a sectarian term based on research done by nil by mouth.

Who also state that h** is a sectarian term.

And we're told we are paranoid.

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

I understand your sentiments but use of Fenian doesn't constitute racism as they're not a race - so the racism aspect is a moot point.

My problem is that the powers to be in this backward shithole of a country have decided that Fenian = Roman Catholic when we all know and every man and his dog in the street knows it's aimed at the Republican sympathisers and those who sing the praises of various proscribed groups.

How can they say that singing it is aimed at Roman Catholics, when a percentage of the Bheast support are Protestant and we have a number of RC's amongst our support who sing it. To say it's ambiguous is an understatement.

It will only take one person to go not guilty the whole way (with a decent lawyer) and receive a not guilty verdict for this to be turned on it's head.

Another point, when Ajax were fined for displaying their Fenian Bastards banner - wasn't that due to the use of the word Bastards? (not 100% on this though).

Get real. The term "fenian" is generally accepted to mean Roman Catholic. Get over it.

[Copland bear 7,966]

Get real. The term "fenian" is generally accepted to mean Roman Catholic. Get over it.

I don't think it means Roman Catholic and never have.

This is what our enemy's would have everyone believe, what its aimed at and what it mean legally are 2 totally different things.

They would have loved to have made this song sectarian but as a Protestant can also be a Fenian they then changed it to offensive.

So if you call a Protestant Celtic fan a Fenian then how does that mean Roman Catholic ?

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

I don't think it means Roman Catholic and never have.

This is what our enemy's would have everyone believe, what its aimed at and what it mean legally are 2 totally different things.

They would have loved to have made this song sectarian but as a Protestant can also be a Fenian they then changed it to offensive.

So if you call a Protestant Celtic fan a Fenian then how does that mean Roman Catholic ?

The law doesn't follow what you think; it follows what the general conception is. As for your last sentence, Amoroso and others have been called "Orange bastards".

[The Dude 20,026]

I don't think it means Roman Catholic and never have.

This is what our enemy's would have everyone believe, what its aimed at and what it mean legally are 2 totally different things.

They would have loved to have made this song sectarian but as a Protestant can also be a Fenian they then changed it to offensive.

So if you call a Protestant Celtic fan a Fenian then how does that mean Roman Catholic ?

You should read the law. It's about the perceived faith/affiliation with a religious or national identity.

Whether the person you call a fenian is Protestant, Jewish or RC is moot.

[Chineseboy 1,563]

I Don't get why more action hasn't been taken by the fans over this, the tims are fighting back at the oppression of football fans so why cant we? I hate them as much as the next Rangers fan but both taking action together could work, it worked in Turkey so why not over here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2608879/Besiktas-Fenerbahce-Galatasaray-fans-unite-protest-against-Turkish-e-ticket-allows-police-snoop-private-data-bank-accounts.html

The fucking tims started it all. THEY are to blame for all this. They pretended to be offended and look at the state of the atmospheres now. Fuck them!

[Bad Robot 21,151]

I Don't get why more action hasn't been taken by the fans over this, the tims are fighting back at the oppression of football fans so why cant we? I hate them as much as the next Rangers fan but both taking action together could work, it worked in Turkey so why not over here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2608879/Besiktas-Fenerbahce-Galatasaray-fans-unite-protest-against-Turkish-e-ticket-allows-police-snoop-private-data-bank-accounts.html

I miss that walk down Istiklal Avenue.

[ForeverAndEver 71,507]

The fucking tims started it all. THEY are to blame for all this. They pretended to be offended and look at the state of the atmospheres now. Fuck them!

Complain about our songs to the polis, polis try stop us with filming us etc. then they complain about number of polis etc. Hypocritical bastards.

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Complain about our songs to the polis, polis try stop us with filming us etc. then they complain about number of polis etc. Hypocritical bastards.

....and now they complain that they're being persecuted for the BotOB and RoH.

Cunts are reaping what they sowed.

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Get real. The term "fenian" is generally accepted to mean Roman Catholic. Get over it.

Generally accepted by whom (our haters?) because I for one have never taken Fenian to mean Roman Catholic and I haven't met any other Bear who thinks otherwise.

This is what needs met head on.