English Football League to consider Celtic and Rangers

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

2 minutes ago, Vanoli said:

You think we'd blitz through the lower divisions first time of asking, at a serious financial disadvantage in the short term? Then once we're in the Championship you think its guaranteed we'd go up relatively soon? Big clubs have rotted there for approaching 20 years now. 20 might be an exaggeration for us, it might be 10, it might be never at all. To me it's not this guaranteed path to greatness everyone assumes it is - i think it's 50-50 chance at best between prosper and reach new heights, or descend into utter irrelevancy if we dont enter at Championship level at least. 

And what relevance does playing in Scottish football give us? 

Financial disadvantage, would that be the disadvantage we have to endure just now being stuck in the shit end of European football. 

You really don't seem to have much faith in our club and its support do you. I think that the worst bit of fighting back the last 4 years was the prospect that at the end we would be no better off than being stuck in this dying league with no prospect of it getting any better. 

[Vanoli 4,625]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

And what relevance does playing in Scottish football give us? 

Financial disadvantage, would that be the disadvantage we have to endure just now being stuck in the shit end of European football. 

You really don't seem to have much faith in our club and its support do you. I think that the worst bit of fighting back the last 4 years was the prospect that at the end we would be no better off than being stuck in this dying league with no prospect of it getting any better. 

With no Chammpions League football, very little. Agreed. 

Just the one. Of course the gap would cut if we moved there, but not over night. If we moved to a revised League 2/ Conference right now we still wouldnt blow teams out the water financially - so what guarantee is there?

I have every faith in our support, but a 4 year journey (which the world assumed would be a 3 year one btw) in a country we have dominaed for 140 years is very different to a journey in England which to me is just impossible to put a time scale on. My only point is that there are no watertight, rock solid guarantees that this would take our club to new heights - irrespective of how great our club (or its support since you brought it up) may be. 

But anyway, it'll never happen, so whats the point in arguing how far we'd go or how long it'd take. 

[RFC55 109,165]

30 minutes ago, ZZed said:

We need to be asked first and I think that the SFA may get difficult about the cash cow leaving, but I think it depends on the TV companies cash.

It's no coincidence this new league starts the season the sky deal up here is up for renewal 

[lanarkshire_bear 83]

5 minutes ago, Vanoli said:

With no Chammpions League football, very little. Agreed. 

Just the one. Of course the gap would cut if we moved there, but not over night. If we moved to a revised League 2/ Conference right now we still wouldnt blow teams out the water financially - so what guarantee is there?

I have every faith in our support, but a 4 year journey (which the world assumed would be a 3 year one btw) in a country we have dominaed for 140 years is very different to a journey in England which to me is just impossible to put a time scale on. My only point is that there are no watertight, rock solid guarantees that this would take our club to new heights - irrespective of how great our club (or its support since you brought it up) may be. 

But anyway, it'll never happen, so whats the point in arguing how far we'd go or how long it'd take. 

I agree that there are no guarantees but to me that risk is tempered by the fact that the future in Scotland looks bleak. Here, we have very little room to maneouvre whereas if we were operating down South, the potential rewards are much higher.

It probably won't happen - but it was brought up by the English leagues themselves, not by Rangers so they are surely giving it some thought?

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

21 minutes ago, Vanoli said:

With no Chammpions League football, very little. Agreed. 

Just the one. Of course the gap would cut if we moved there, but not over night. If we moved to a revised League 2/ Conference right now we still wouldnt blow teams out the water financially - so what guarantee is there?

I have every faith in our support, but a 4 year journey (which the world assumed would be a 3 year one btw) in a country we have dominaed for 140 years is very different to a journey in England which to me is just impossible to put a time scale on. My only point is that there are no watertight, rock solid guarantees that this would take our club to new heights - irrespective of how great our club (or its support since you brought it up) may be. 

But anyway, it'll never happen, so whats the point in arguing how far we'd go or how long it'd take. 

Agreed mate, there's no point arguing over a very big IF. 

Just can't see any down side to getting out of this hell hole of a league. 

[Bears 794]

We were dumped in the bottom division here and we held our heads up high. It was not a nice, fun journey back but we did it and we've returned better, wiser and more ready for what will be in this country or in England.

From division 5 it would be a much more difficult struggle to rise to the top but with more investment, better management and players than the first 3 years of our recent climb, and the hope of a far greater prize in England, it is surely worth the fight.

However, no one can convince me that celtc and its fans would be ready for such a challenge. With their hollow and unfounded attitude of superiority and arrogance, and definitely no ability to knuckle down and turn up at their ground without both a major trophy and us in sight, they'd possibly sink with little trace. If we were promoted and they not... they'd give up.

Bring it on.

[WishartsAshes 1,137]

It should be the ambition of every sportsman and club to compete at the highest level so if there is a chance to step up we should take it, even if that means taking a few steps back first.

If people think we would struggle to get out of The Championship they must be terrified of qualifying for any European competition.

If this happened investment would be guaranteed. The prospect of a share in the wealth of the EPL and The Championship on the way and the subsequent increase in the value of the club would make investment inevitable. Our brand would also increase in value as part of a bigger league and reaching more people.

Or we could just stay in an ever decreasing same old same old Scottish system where the best we can hope for is occasional qualification for the Champions League group stage for which we are competitively and financially unprepared.

As I've already said, I can't see it happening but there's no doubt if the chance arises we should jump at it.

[Tam Müller 340]

14 hours ago, Ace said:

Shaun Harvey, the English Football League chief executive, says that his members will decide whether Celtic and Rangers can join a new ‘fifth division’ planned for the start of the 2019-2020 season.

The 72 EFL clubs are being asked for their opinions on how the Football League expands to four divisions of 20 teams each, as part of the ‘Whole Game Solution’. The two Scottish clubs have long been considered a possibility for the new ‘fifth division’ and Harvey says the final decision will be down to his members.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/08/28/english-football-league-to-consider-celtic-and-rangers-for-inclu/

Always get the fear at stuff like this. For me Rangers still is a club and the supporters are loyal to said club. 

Americans and overseas investors are a cancer to the modern game. Granted the money would be nice but we would then no longer be known across the world for our loyal fanbase. But be seen as millions of tits worldwide who probably believe barca are in for a shout for winning the world cup, as a brand.

 I don't want fans of a brand. I want to be in the stands with fans of a club. Our club

How long would it be before some Vincent Tan type cunt bought us. Changed the colour of our shirts, demolished ibrox and built some shit soulless bowl type stadium and filled it with tourists every week. This can fuck right off!! 

I'll take playing hamilton in the rain on a cold tuesday with a squad that cost less than 2 million over the above any day of the fucking week. Tell this Harvey cunt to jab the proposal up his farter

[weeto 112]

I'm going to look at Rugby Union's Pro 12 as inspiration for an Atlantic League style setup that works.

Teams from Scotland, Wales, Ireland (both parts) and Italy as well as advanced talks about a US or Canadian expansion team.

It is one of the big three leagues in Europe and proves the basic format is viable.

As for a league for sharks that live in puddles, the following teams could be sensible possibilities, assuming that Eastern Europe isn't involved in the same league, although they could have another one...

 Rangers, Celtic

Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord

Porto, Benfica, Sporting

Anderlecht, Brugge (maybe Standard Liege)

Basel (maybe Grasshopper)

Red Bull Salzburg (possibly Rapid or Austria Vienna)

FC Copenhagen

A couple of Swedish teams (maybe Malmo and IFK Gothenburg but there are other options like AIK and Norkoping too)

A few other teams like Rosenborg could be involved too, maybe as expansion teams.

 

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

1 hour ago, Tam Müller said:

Always get the fear at stuff like this. For me Rangers still is a club and the supporters are loyal to said club. 

Americans and overseas investors are a cancer to the modern game. Granted the money would be nice but we would then no longer be known across the world for our loyal fanbase. But be seen as millions of tits worldwide who probably believe barca are in for a shout for winning the world cup, as a brand.

 I don't want fans of a brand. I want to be in the stands with fans of a club. Our club

How long would it be before some Vincent Tan type cunt bought us. Changed the colour of our shirts, demolished ibrox and built some shit soulless bowl type stadium and filled it with tourists every week. This can fuck right off!! 

I'll take playing hamilton in the rain on a cold tuesday with a squad that cost less than 2 million over the above any day of the fucking week. Tell this Harvey cunt to jab the proposal up his farter

Chinese investment is where its at at the minute and Wolves, West Brom and Villa have all had Chinese investment with none of the things you've mentioned even being part of any conversation (Im surrounded by Wolves and Villa fans round these parts) . In fact only Cardiff and Hull have had the issues that you seem to be afraid of.

Unsurprisingly the Chinese are big fans of tradition and its very unlikely that any investor would take away the things that make Rangers unique. They will realise (ironically after the fans reaction to Tan and Allams antics) that the core support is not to be marginalised. Their models of investment seem to be much less confrontational then some of the more colourful characters of past years.

The proposal was put to Harvey rather than something that he instigated and he said:                                                “One of the simple questions is, if this is to proceed, is where should the [new] teams come from? So the only ones who will decide that are the clubs themselves, so we will see what they say. I don’t want to pre-empt anything.”

The fans in the stands will be fans of the club just like they've always been but, like Leicester, there could be benefits to overseas investment in terms of merchandising (No SD in S.E. Asia) and tv subscriptions and sponsorship.

The choice is not really going to be between the 2 scenarios you put forward but more, between a withering Scottish product and moving to either the EFL or into the Atlantic League where the opportunities to move forward will be much greater than if we stick with the current situation.

[Tam Müller 340]

5 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

Chinese investment is where its at at the minute and Wolves, West Brom and Villa have all had Chinese investment with none of the things you've mentioned even being part of any conversation (Im surrounded by Wolves and Villa fans round these parts) . In fact only Cardiff and Hull have had the issues that you seem to be afraid of.

Unsurprisingly the Chinese are big fans of tradition and its very unlikely that any investor would take away the things that make Rangers unique. They will realise (ironically after the fans reaction to Tan and Allams antics) that the core support is not to be marginalised. Their models of investment seem to be much less confrontational then some of the more colourful characters of past years.

The proposal was put to Harvey rather than something that he instigated and he said:                                                “One of the simple questions is, if this is to proceed, is where should the [new] teams come from? So the only ones who will decide that are the clubs themselves, so we will see what they say. I don’t want to pre-empt anything.”

The fans in the stands will be fans of the club just like they've always been but, like Leicester, there could be benefits to overseas investment in terms of merchandising (No SD in S.E. Asia) and tv subscriptions and sponsorship.

The choice is not really going to be between the 2 scenarios you put forward but more, between a withering Scottish product and moving to either the EFL or into the Atlantic League where the opportunities to move forward will be much greater than if we stick with the current situation.

I've read what you've said and it's a good arguement with some interesting points. 

Chinese investment may not be the end of the world IF as you say they respect our club's history, tradition and values. However imagine it was some bigwig yank that got his claws in? 

Old firms possibly played overseas for all the tims in boston, all the bears in Canada as well as scattered sporadically over the US. One instance which will likely never happen but if it was a choice between keeping the fanbase happy or milking some team from Glasgow (which I guarantee he would assume was in Europe) he'd sell our soul. 

I realise this whole scenario is wild speculation but for now I am strongly against the idea. 

How long would it be before Ibrox was done away with and a soulless tourist trap erected in its place? I know you've answered that with your own views but there's not a hope in hell that any yank/chinese investor would pump millions into a stadium steeped in tradition and glory for repairs and maintenance when he could just demolish it and build a new stadium in its place to seat 60/70k + and for it to either be half empty every week or full of cucumber sandwich brigade tourists who call football soccer. 

Like I said mate very well constructed arguement but I shudder at the thought of this. 

[TopCat 4,511]

I would be 100% for this. 

 

We could/would become a major European force inside a decade of playing down south imho.

[BlueBearz1990 570]

17 hours ago, gogzy said:

Also if they vote on Rangers and celtic, won't they have to vote on every other scottish team?  

 

Are we heading towards a British superleague type set up?

I'd much prefer a British cup than a British league. 

[BlueBearz1990 570]

3 minutes ago, TopCat said:

I would be 100% for this. 

 

We could/would become a major European force inside a decade of playing down south imho.

There's is no guarantee of that, and starting once again at the bottom of the pile would be brutal. 

[DMax399 3,757]

It would be pushing the boat out to allow a Scottish team to join the English league, but an Irish team..............that would be controversial.

[bluedart1952 1,352]

I know we have been discussing the what ifs about the possibility us and the scum joining the English league set up, but I think it will be more of an opportunity for the Premier league big clubs to put reserve teams into the new set up.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

39 minutes ago, Tam Müller said:

I've read what you've said and it's a good arguement with some interesting points. 

Chinese investment may not be the end of the world IF as you say they respect our club's history, tradition and values. However imagine it was some bigwig yank that got his claws in? 

Old firms possibly played overseas for all the tims in boston, all the bears in Canada as well as scattered sporadically over the US. One instance which will likely never happen but if it was a choice between keeping the fanbase happy or milking some team from Glasgow (which I guarantee he would assume was in Europe) he'd sell our soul. 

I realise this whole scenario is wild speculation but for now I am strongly against the idea. 

How long would it be before Ibrox was done away with and a soulless tourist trap erected in its place? I know you've answered that with your own views but there's not a hope in hell that any yank/chinese investor would pump millions into a stadium steeped in tradition and glory for repairs and maintenance when he could just demolish it and build a new stadium in its place to seat 60/70k + and for it to either be half empty every week or full of cucumber sandwich brigade tourists who call football soccer. 

Like I said mate very well constructed arguement but I shudder at the thought of this. 

With the listed status of the main stand (the bit thats properly 'steeped in tradition') I would welcome development of the stadium that retained the iconic part and, as part of a develoment of the surrounding area, a more modern stadium with the facilities the fans deserve. The whole area round the stadium needs major investment that isnt coming our way anytime soon from GCC (they have their seats at the Brendanbeu sorted). Do you really believe a 60K stadium would be 'half full' if we moved to a more competitive set up (EFL/EPL or Atlantic League)??? 

I don't believe Americans are investing in British football at the minute, they have had their fingers burnt (Lerner and Fenway Sports), only the Glazers seem to be staying around in the face of the Chinese onslaught. 

I understand your trepidation but do you really want the club to sink into the obscurity of a withering Scottish game and never have the chance to take our place back at the top table in Europe? Without some radical re thinking thats the reality of where we are now.

[Bellshill_Bear 1,105]

Sky are no mugs. They know the interest the old firm get worldwide and how much could be made from us joining the English league and being the biggest investors in English football they have a big say in things.

We would also be an attractive proposition for wealthy investors.

100% for this. 

I take it this is all smoke and mirrors? 

[BMC 125]

Why would the EFL even discuss this unless they see a possible advantage for themselves.. ?
Yes, it might just be BT and SKY whispering in their ears but I also see it as part of the EPL vs EFL rivalry

[Bellshill_Bear 1,105]

The thing that annoys me is why should celtic be allowed in? With their anti Britishness and hatred for the Queen why can`the they get fucked in the Irish league? It isn't even a "heritage" thing fucking cretinous cunts

[VladimirWeiss69 802]

I for one would be delighted if we moved to the English leagues, I am fed up with the twats that run us up here and the hatred built towards us by pretty much every team in scotland, not to mention the financial disadvantage.