Another song warning from Rangers

[minstral 5,375]

and ignore the part that tells you to go to church

ok i bet most dont read the bible from one year to the next.

I cant speak for everyone.

[keithgersbear 3,225]

Its amazing to me how people STILL think the Billy boys is about Catholics when its not. Its about Irish republicans. Its as simple as that.

[BRICKY1872 118]

When people say fenian, what they really mean is Irish republican bastards. The vast majority of celtic fans have the republican political ideology. I don't see what is wrong with calling IRA loving cunts fenians.

What gets me is how other clubs fans the length and breadth of the country can sing the same song and substitute Fenian for Ayr, City, Hibees etc blood, yet UEFA decreed that the song hadn't to be sung by fans "in any form". A load of shite. If UEFA came after us for singing The Billy Boys again there is a wealth of evidence to show it is no worse than what other fans are singing all over the UK.

[gunslinger 270]

We are talking about the Billy Boys, it was our song. Why did it not get banned many years ago.

it wasnt illegal till 2003.

[gunslinger 270]

Its amazing to me how people STILL think the Billy boys is about Catholics when its not. Its about Irish republicans. Its as simple as that.

it amazes me how many people think that

frankly i bet the bulk of people outside message boards have no idea of the origins of the word. infact i know they do.

most people mean celtc fans and some mean all catholics.

[minnbear 30]

i would call a black person black, which some now think isnt right

Do people still ask for a "darkies walloper" in the chip shop?

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

That's my point - of course not. Words change and evolve.

If you call someone a 'fenian bastard' you're not necessarily saying he is an Irish rebel. I've heard one guy sitting behind me at Ibrox recommending to Amoruso (when he was our captain) that he 'get his fenian finger out'. Unless, you're suggesting that Amoruso is an Irish rebel then you have to concede that a lot of people say 'fenian' but mean 'Catholic'

I would agree with you there TWB - language does indeed evolve and change. I noticed in another reply you used the word context which I thought was very apt.

I have a real difficulty in accepting this current PC matra that some words are allowed to be used by one group but not others - the word "n***er" was cited as an example earlier. How can it be acceptable for one group of people to use it and not another - surely that just adds to the total confusion. Are they trying to suggest that the different groups have different interpretations for the word ?

Would it not be a lot better if the word was banished sine die from use by all ? In the lead up to the Ali /Frasier fight many years ago Ali referred to Frasier as a "n***er" which was apparently considered the ultimate insult. The inference was that Frasier was an old world black man whilst Ali represented the new modern and liberated black man. Very very confusing.

As to the term "fenian" - I personally would never use it to describe a Roman Catholic as it would merely show my ignorance of the fenian movement which had many members who were not Roman Catholic. The original fenians of course wished to overthrow British rule in Ireland by force.

Remarkably from what we have seen from Parkhead in recent weeks there are a considerable number of people who would appear to support the original description.

Its clear that elements within the Celtic support are not just comfortable with the term, but actively promote it as some kind of badge of honour. In addition to the Paddy McCourt song Ive seen some wearing T Shirts "Fenian and Proud" and they sing about "bold Fenian men".

Which makes me wonder what context they are utlising the word ? I suspect its usage is in its original context - they support the overthrow of British rule in Ireland by force.

Therefore if the word still seems to be alive with regard to its original meaning and the context in which it is used, how can anyone determine that Rangers fans are using it exclusively to describe those of the Roman Catholic faith ?

But the problem is that its usage has not been challenged - and therefore if the song is sung I suspect we will be punished. My feeling on this is that it is the wrong place to challenge the ruling by singing the song at a football ground - I suspect that will simply be food and drink to the odious creep and all others who wish to punish Rangers.

[ballingrybear 2]

they want us to sing hehaw fuck them

[Jelle1880 225]

Who ever is in charge of Rangers PR can fuck off.

How about doing your fucking job instead of giving ammo to our enemies, about stuff that's hardly worth mentioning.

[bjorkland 13]

That's my point - of course not. Words change and evolve.

If you call someone a 'fenian bastard' you're not necessarily saying he is an Irish rebel. I've heard one guy sitting behind me at Ibrox recommending to Amoruso (when he was our captain) that he 'get his fenian finger out'. Unless, you're suggesting that Amoruso is an Irish rebel then you have to concede that a lot of people say 'fenian' but mean 'Catholic'

Spot on. It is the Rangers supporters who are responsible for the word changing meaning. It's funny how until TBB was banned, there was no large scale debate or defence of the word fenian. Throughout the years, I've heard people of all nationalities being labelled fenians, either because the were Catholic, or because they played for Celtic and were assumed to be Catholic. For years I was called a fenian because I went to a Catholic school.

It's too late to try and change the meaning back now. These things take generations, and for generations past the word fenian has been used to mean Catholics and by association Celtic supporters.

[gunslinger 270]

Spot on. It is the Rangers supporters who are responsible for the word changing meaning. It's funny how until TBB was banned, there was no large scale debate or defence of the word fenian. Throughout the years, I've heard people of all nationalities being labelled fenians, either because the were Catholic, or because they played for Celtic and were assumed to be Catholic. For years I was called a fenian because I went to a Catholic school.

It's too late to try and change the meaning back now. These things take generations, and for generations past the word fenian has been used to mean Catholics and by association Celtic supporters.

aint that the truth.

i had no idea of the origins of the word untill a few years ago.

dirty fenian fuckers

dirty fenian bastards

sad fenian bastard.

the term is offensive it sure as hell better be because thats why i use it.

noone is doing our history and traditions any good by claiming it isnt offensive.

next they will be writing songs about the hoops and paradise.

[Briton 394]

plenty of people mean catholic when they say it.

theirs no question about that.

Yep...and it those people who use it to refer to Catholics that has lead to all this hand wringing over the loss of the anthem.

[Briton 394]

As to the term "fenian" - I personally would never use it to describe a Roman Catholic ...

Me too but you do accept that many Rangers fans do use it to mean Roman Catholic?

[Briton 394]

Spot on. It is the Rangers supporters who are responsible for the word changing meaning. It's funny how until TBB was banned, there was no large scale debate or defence of the word fenian. Throughout the years, I've heard people of all nationalities being labelled fenians, either because the were Catholic, or because they played for Celtic and were assumed to be Catholic. For years I was called a fenian because I went to a Catholic school.

It's too late to try and change the meaning back now. These things take generations, and for generations past the word fenian has been used to mean Catholics and by association Celtic supporters.

Exactly. The idea that we can change the meaning back is crazy. The people who have brought this on us are usually the same people doing most the hand wringing over the ban.

[RFC55 108,937]

It seems to be that the people on here are so offended by our own dont go to the games anyway! So whats the problem? Our fans will not be offending the Mick apologists as most will not be in the same stand as the "naughty songs".

There is no difference between hibees blood, fenian blood, ayr blood, united blood, city blood etc unless we are of the opinion that its ok to be "wading" through other types of blood as long as its not fenian??

[gunslinger 270]

It seems to be that the people on here are so offended by our own dont go to the games anyway! So whats the problem? Our fans will not be offending the Mick apologists as most will not be in the same stand as the "naughty songs".

There is no difference between hibees blood, fenian blood, ayr blood, united blood, city blood etc unless we are of the opinion that its ok to be "wading" through other types of blood as long as its not fenian??

fenian = catholic in the eyes of the law thats the difference.

you similarily couldnt say english blood, asian blood or homo blood.

if this was simply about upsetting some papes thier would be no issue. but its agains the spl rules and could see us in trouble.

[RFC55 108,937]

Gunslinger are we then of the opinion that the whole Hibernian support, Ayr united, Manchester City support, etc are of no relevance then? Is it only if you add the word fenian then that makes the difference? Or are we also to assume when you say Hibees blood its just a joke? Im surprised hibernian havent been climbing the walls trying to get it banned, as surely the Hearts fans are wanting all people of Irish ancestory to be dead?

This whole thing is pathetic, ffs i done history from 1st to 4th year and in all 4 years we learned of the fenian movement in different forms throughout those years. But then again shame fc are good at getting things changed to suit them. Fenian never ever meant catholic never. Dress it up how you or anyone else wants to it never meant that. But then Rangers fans sing a song for years and it becomes a problem only when we become the 1st Scottish team in the last 16 of the UCL when we were on the verge of progressing to the 1/4s.

i am off the genuine opinion that if this was the other way rouNd and they sang Orange blood there would be no issue here. It would be classed as craic, and if it came to the nitty gritty shame fc would say that Orangemen had been responsible for the killing of many Irish "shellick minded" people over the years so the song is about their struggle.

EDIT- my missus of 6 years is a catholic as are most of her family and also my granda is 2. Just incase anyone thinks anything else

[gunslinger 270]

the other songs are clearly about the football team. not a race religion etc.

they may get banned one day because of the blood part but probably not.

orange blood would almost certainly see it banned h** blood a better equivalant certainly would.

similarily if we sang celtic blood or yahoo or vermin we would be fine.

i prefer yahoo if i have to choose

[RFC55 108,937]

the other songs are clearly about the football team. not a race religion etc.

they may get banned one day because of the blood part but probably not.

`orange blood would almost certainly see it banned h** blood a better equivalant certainly would.

similarily if we sang celtic blood or yahoo or vermin we would be fine.

i prefer yahoo if i have to choose

So its ok to want a full support to be lying covered in blood, but not self confessed fenians?

If we sang shellick blood it would be banned, i would bet anything you want on that.

Btw its Rangers who have said they want no versions to be sung. However every other team can sing it if they want

[gunslinger 270]

So its ok to want a full support to be lying covered in blood, but not self confessed fenians?

If we sang shellick blood it would be banned, i would bet anything you want on that.

Btw its Rangers who have said they want no versions to be sung. However every other team can sing it if they want

trouble is most wouldnt sing celtc blood if they did we would be fine.

if you suggesting the idea is we kill all fenians celtc players or fans. or hibies utd or ayr fans etc then the whole lot should be banned.

uefa have banned all versions because the rangers fans cant be trusted to sing new words.

[gunslinger 270]

the other versions contain no discrimimnatory terms. its that simple.

[RFC55 108,937]

trouble is most wouldnt sing celtc blood if they did we would be fine.

if you suggesting the idea is we kill all fenians celtc players or fans. or hibies utd or ayr fans etc then the whole lot should be banned.

uefa have banned all versions because the rangers fans cant be trusted to sing new words.

Just out of interest can you show me the UEFA article on the banning please? We were fined i know but dont remeber being banned for anything.

Im not saying we kill fenians however if it is not ok to sing about fenian blood, then it should not be ok to sing about any other type of blood. Be it barney bear or Rayo vallecano. If you cant sing about 1 movements blood you certainly shouldnt be allowed to sing about being up to your knees in a full supports blood.

Im not wanting any songs banned btw, as im not that pathetic that a song hurts me.

Btw do you have any idea when the song with the line soon there will be no protestants at all will be banned?

[RFC55 108,937]

the other versions contain no discrimimnatory terms. its that simple.

Neither is fenian, as i have said dress it up anyway you want it dosent mean catholic

[gunslinger 270]

you see the thing is the songs is not allowed.

now people dont like that i get that. some of the arguments for why its of are pretty flimsy but thats not really my concern.

if people want to be allowed to sing it bleeting about the fenian brotherhood on message boards isnt going to get you anywhere.

hire a lawyer, speak to your mp do something orgonise a march or protest.

if you want to keep singing it out of defiance then you and rangers need to take the consequences when they come. but dont get all pissy when rangers tell you to stop and understand theirs bears out there who disagree with your stance.

[Ozblue 4,331]

Ye know....................................I canny wait for this season to finish, with no major bad publicity for our club, and us sitting proudly atop the league once again.

I'm genuinely getting sick to the back fuckin teeth at all the shite being flung our way this season.

FFS RFC stand up, speak out, defend our club, defend us, defend our traditions, don't let other clubs and the media walk all over us.

Time to act.........................it's gone on long enough now.

I hate to say this booler, but it appears that the fucking horse has bolted; and the people entrusted to speak out for the supporters and who should be defending these accusations are just about shutting the stable door,mate!

If RFC are not going to stand their ground, the gemme's a bogey, because nobody else will fight the cause to get the Billy Boys or any other song deemed offensive/sectarian/bigotted to be allowed to be sung at football grounds.

The ONLY way this will get sorted out once and for all is if EVERY supporter keeps singing it and if they get arrested or banned from the grounds, take them on in the highest court in the land and see who's right or wrong.

Call their bluff otherwise.!