Vanguard Bears Statement On Bigotry Within Snp!

[the_r_sole 366]

did you all miss the point where I said I am not an snp voter?!

politics and football are not related in the slightest for me - "fans" calling out others on their choice of vote in a general election is dumb, get over it, if people don't agree with your political views it doesn't have any relation to their ability to support a football team. If you are stupid enough to place your vote based on which club you support you really need to get out and experience the wider world

[Kaiser Wull 203]

do you understand that this is a general election for the makeup of the uk parliament and not an independence referendum?

I'm amazed that people of voting age can't understand the difference between what their votes are actually for

Yes. I'm quite well aware of the difference between a GE and a referendum, thanks.

Do you understand that a successful GE campaign for the SNP will inevitably lead to another referendum*? You have to look at the ultimate outcome of an SNP vote rather than confine it to the present election. Or is that beyond your understanding?

*And even if there isn't another referendum then it's likely that the SNP could use their block vote to secure more powers for Holyrood in a hung parliament. The more powers they have, the more damage they can do. It's not rocket science, bud.

[the_r_sole 366]

Do you understand that a successful GE campaign for the SNP will inevitably lead to another referendum*? You have to look at the ultimate outcome of an SNP vote rather than confine it to the present election. Or is that beyond your understanding?

where have you got this information from, I have seen and heard the current leader of SNP saying over and over again that they have no plans to propose another referendum and if they were going to it would have to voted for anyway!

There is absolutely nothing inevitable about it, conversely, if the snp did hold some sway at westminster they would have to make some serious compromises to get that sway - which would mean their support reduces with every compromise made in the westminster parliament.

people should vote for who they like in an election and should support the football team they want to - the two don't have to be related and one should never be used to pick the other, there's a hell of a lot more to life than football or politics

[Andy2020 32]

Everyone knows the SNP want independence.

But they have made it perfectly clear this UK election isn't about that - we just had a referendum.

This UK election is about the chance to get more powers and influence for Scotland while we are part of the UK.

If there ever is another referendum in the future it will be because the Scottish people vote for that at a future Holyrood election, and if that happens we will simply vote on it again - yes or no. That's democracy.

I'm not scared of democracy. I think it depends on whether we get the powers we were promised. If he had real home rule or federalism, then most people would be happy with that.

Right now, all I see is Labour in Scotland constantly attacking the SNP on the subject and the real reason is this:

They have no intention of delivering more significant powers to the Scottish parliament, and the last thing they want is the SNP holding the balance of power to keep them straight.

Now it looks like Miliband is trying to blackmail Scots into voting Labour, or he will let the Tories back in.

There are Labour activists out campaigning for the Tories in seats like Perth. Keir Hardie must be spinning in his grave right now.

[Kaiser Wull 203]

where have you got this information from, I have seen and heard the current leader of SNP saying over and over again that they have no plans to propose another referendum and if they were going to it would have to voted for anyway!

There is absolutely nothing inevitable about it, conversely, if the snp did hold some sway at westminster they would have to make some serious compromises to get that sway - which would mean their support reduces with every compromise made in the westminster parliament.

people should vote for who they like in an election and should support the football team they want to - the two don't have to be related and one should never be used to pick the other, there's a hell of a lot more to life than football or politics

I've heard plenty of rumblings that the SNP will push for another referendum if they do well at the GE and in next year's elections. It remains their central ethos. If they are successful then, mark my words, there will be a push for another referendum. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Anyone voting for the SNP should be worried about their capabilities based on their eight years in power and their laughable financial case for independence - if they can get something as fundamental as that so badly wrong then it hardly inspires confidence in anything else they do, does it?

People should use their heads when voting. Too many people don't, and therein lies a problem.

Anyway, time to bow out of this thread. I've made my point, and I'm not going to, er, labour it.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

where have you got this information from, I have seen and heard the current leader of SNP saying over and over again that they have no plans to propose another referendum and if they were going to it would have to voted for anyway!

There is absolutely nothing inevitable about it, conversely, if the snp did hold some sway at westminster they would have to make some serious compromises to get that sway - which would mean their support reduces with every compromise made in the westminster parliament.

people should vote for who they like in an election and should support the football team they want to - the two don't have to be related and one should never be used to pick the other, there's a hell of a lot more to life than football or politics

Then I would resectfullly suggest you change youre search engine.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11230833/Nicola-Sturgeon-puts-second-referendum-at-top-of-agenda.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/562698/Scottish-National-Party-preparing-for-second-independence-referendum

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sturgeon-will-not-rule-out-second-referendum.25423656

[Kaiser Wull 203]

Everyone knows the SNP want independence.

But they have made it perfectly clear this UK election isn't about that - we just had a referendum.

This UK election is about the chance to get more powers and influence for Scotland while we are part of the UK.

Ah, fuck it. One last comment is called for:

Do you know that 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary?

[Andy2020 32]

Ah, fuck it. One last comment is called for:

Do you know that 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary?

Sturgeon has been all over the TV saying this election isn't about independence. I believe her.

And I think they've done a pretty good job in Scotland with limited powers.

I don't get the need for all the abuse on here - just a difference in opinion.

I respect your choice in voting for whoever you want, according to whichever way you see it.

[Brian Fantana 28,894]

the last referendum cost upward of £16 million to the tax payer.

does she not see that £16 million could have eliminated the need for public contribution to food banks? if not why not, she bangs on about them enough.

[the_r_sole 366]

Then I would resectfullly suggest you change youre search engine.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11230833/Nicola-Sturgeon-puts-second-referendum-at-top-of-agenda.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/562698/Scottish-National-Party-preparing-for-second-independence-referendum

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/sturgeon-will-not-rule-out-second-referendum.25423656

did you read those articles?

“The tactics for the 2016 election have not been done yet but what we will do will depend on how Westminster responds to this result.

“If we win decisively and they deliver full fiscal autonomy then a referendum is for the future. If Westminster frustrates the express wishes of the Scottish people for more powers then that [another referendum] is something we would have to look at.”

saying you won't rule something out because you want to let the electorate dictate policy is nothing like saying independence is top priority - look at the interviews she's done in this election campaign, i.e. the one we are voting on next week

can i ask who you will be voting for, who stands up for the "prods and the rangers" (quoted from ridiculous earlier post on here)

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

did you read those articles?

“The tactics for the 2016 election have not been done yet but what we will do will depend on how Westminster responds to this result.

“If we win decisively and they deliver full fiscal autonomy then a referendum is for the future. If Westminster frustrates the express wishes of the Scottish people for more powers then that [another referendum] is something we would have to look at.”

saying you won't rule something out because you want to let the electorate dictate policy is nothing like saying independence is top priority - look at the interviews she's done in this election campaign, i.e. the one we are voting on next week

can i ask who you will be voting for, who stands up for the "prods and the rangers" (quoted from ridiculous earlier post on here)

Yes I read them.

I have no time for any politicians - Ive spent enough time around them and protecting them to know they are very much alike irrespective of the party poltics.

But you are fooling no-one regarding a 2nd ref.

The economic argument was lost some time ago by the SNP - the failure to identify an alternative currency, or a central bank which would serve Scotland's interests was their downfall at the ref - since then they have done a spectacular retreat from FFA and the alleged "Westminster scaremongering" over world oil prices has come to fruition.

The SNP's continued popularity at the polls shows that there is a suspension of reality going on in Scotland - its not about the economy - they lost that battle ages ago - its purely about independence and to hell with the economic consequences.

I have no idea who, if anyone I will vote for - but you can rest assured it wont be for a party who endorses a candidate who uses hate speech to describe our support.

[weshallnotbemoved! 714]

Yes I read them.

I have no time for any politicians - Ive spent enough time around them and protecting them to know they are very much alike irrespective of the party poltics.

But you are fooling no-one regarding a 2nd ref.

The economic argument was lost some time ago by the SNP - the failure to identify an alternative currency, or a central bank which would serve Scotland's interests was their downfall at the ref - since then they have done a spectacular retreat from FFA and the alleged "Westminster scaremongering" over world oil prices has come to fruition.

The SNP's continued popularity at the polls shows that there is a suspension of reality going on in Scotland - its not about the economy - they lost that battle ages ago - its purely about independence and to hell with the economic consequences.

Agreed. Its a massive con relating to getting in on a patriotism ticket, hoping that no one really does the sums or studies the implications until then.

[Getstiffed 8,863]

Yes I read them.

I have no time for any politicians - Ive spent enough time around them and protecting them to know they are very much alike irrespective of the party poltics.

But you are fooling no-one regarding a 2nd ref.

The economic argument was lost some time ago by the SNP - the failure to identify an alternative currency, or a central bank which would serve Scotland's interests was their downfall at the ref - since then they have done a spectacular retreat from FFA and the alleged "Westminster scaremongering" over world oil prices has come to fruition.

The SNP's continued popularity at the polls shows that there is a suspension of reality going on in Scotland - its not about the economy - they lost that battle ages ago - its purely about independence and to hell with the economic consequences.

I have no idea who, if anyone I will vote for - but you can rest assured it wont be for a party who endorses a candidate who uses hate speech to describe our support.

And gets away with it

[Real Ranger 3,195]

Sturgeon has been all over the TV saying this election isn't about independence. I believe her.

And I think they've done a pretty good job in Scotland with limited powers.

I don't get the need for all the abuse on here - just a difference in opinion.

I respect your choice in voting for whoever you want, according to whichever way you see it.

She did say that the election isn't a mandate for another referendum but when pressed to say there won't be a second referendum under her leadership she said the Scottish people would decide. What I'd like to know is in what way does she believe we would want another referendum other than voting for a party whose goal is separation.

I thiink Scotland isn't doing too badly even with them in power. We have came through a worldwide recession and during it our economy didn't collapse like it did In Ireland and Iceland ( the models Salmond said we should follow). We were still able to give out free prescriptions, education and travel for our pensioners, and all this was achieved while being part of the UK.

[BillyFC 81]

All I can go on is my own personal experience.

I've only ever seen the word as an anti-Rangers insult. People calling me it know I don't care about religion.

It's just back and forward football banter, that I can brush off.

I get the point about double standards. The whole abuse laws are bullshit.

It just leads to nonsense like this arguing over what words mean these days.

At the end of the day, the whole issue should be handled under existing breach of the peace laws.

I think the intention was good to be seen to make an effort to stamp out sectarian bigotry. Hasn't worked though.

It should be self-policing, with judges left to draw the line between banter, and genuine bigotry and hatred, or stuff that could provoke a riot.

To be honest, in this case it just looks like a bit of banter to me.

I doubt I'm the only one who sees it that way.

There is a difference between "banter" with a mate and what has been raised in the op. A mate calling me a h** gets met with similar in verbal response. He's a mate and mates use a language that the friendship permits. However, a stranger referring to me as a h**, most likely in a derogatory way as I can't see any other reason for using it, is likely to result in a completely different reaction from me. It's no longer "banter", it's the foreplay that often leads to a kick in the balls!

I get the "sticks and stones" point that is made by you and others but for any politician to use that word (or Tims/Fenians or Paki/n***er) is unacceptable and should be dealt with accordingly. That the SNP see no reason to take action says a lot and I doubt very much if they would take the same attitude with any of the other words I've mentioned. They would be up in arms if they were used by any other political party of that I'm sure.

[DrLaudrup 4,684]

The VGB statement is a strong one. While I think the law is wrong, it has to be enforced across the board and jailing young Rangers fans whilst refusing to condemn their own is the hypocrisy we have come to expect.

As for the rest of the thread, the SNP are generally doing OK in power but the fact is that their only purpose is to remove Scotland from the UK, therefore I would never vote for them in any election, be it Scottish or General Election as no matter what their current agenda, the more influence and power they continue to have will ultimately be used to try and achieve their aims.

[Inigo 32,534]

If you vote yes or snp please don't support us anymore traitor scum

I think the way things are just now, you'd lose a hell of a lot of Rangers fans if that happened. I think It'd consign us to permanently being the second club of Scotland.

[BlueAvenger 10,313]

Everyone knows the SNP want independence.

But they have made it perfectly clear this UK election isn't about that - we just had a referendum.

This UK election is about the chance to get more powers and influence for Scotland while we are part of the UK.

If there ever is another referendum in the future it will be because the Scottish people vote for that at a future Holyrood election, and if that happens we will simply vote on it again - yes or no. That's democracy.

I'm not scared of democracy. I think it depends on whether we get the powers we were promised. If he had real home rule or federalism, then most people would be happy with that.

Right now, all I see is Labour in Scotland constantly attacking the SNP on the subject and the real reason is this:

They have no intention of delivering more significant powers to the Scottish parliament, and the last thing they want is the SNP holding the balance of power to keep them straight.

Now it looks like Miliband is trying to blackmail Scots into voting Labour, or he will let the Tories back in.

There are Labour activists out campaigning for the Tories in seats like Perth. Keir Hardie must be spinning in his grave right now.

Surely you have heard of the Smith Commission (that Labour, SNP etc signed up to) and more powers coming to Scotland?

For 3 years all we heard from Sturgeon/Salmond/separatists was the Referendum with them boasting that they would win.

When she claimed "it was a once in a lifetime opportunity" and " a once in a generation" did she lie to or mislead the Scottish people?

They lost the Referendum and strangely now it's "will of the Scottish people" or her " gut" that will decide if there's a second Referendum !!!

Perhaps honest trustworthy Nicola will tell the people of Scotland now that there will be no 2nd Referendum in the 2016 SNP Manifesto and that she was telling the truth about "once in a lifetime"............!!!!

Miliband said there will be no deal with the SNP and would not have a Labour Gov in such circumstances but of course Sturgeon spouts the "maybe its sound like he would rather have the Tories in Gov and Scotland would never forgive" propaganda pish.

It amazes me that people can't see through Sturgeon and fall for her lies and bullshit.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

where have you got this information from, I have seen and heard the current leader of SNP saying over and over again that they have no plans to propose another referendum and if they were going to it would have to voted for anyway!

There is absolutely nothing inevitable about it, conversely, if the snp did hold some sway at westminster they would have to make some serious compromises to get that sway - which would mean their support reduces with every compromise made in the westminster parliament.

people should vote for who they like in an election and should support the football team they want to - the two don't have to be related and one should never be used to pick the other, there's a hell of a lot more to life than football or politics

Words fucking fail me, they really do!!!

[Ger_Scott 73]

If there ever is another referendum in the future it will be because the Scottish people vote for that at a future Holyrood election, and if that happens we will simply vote on it again - yes or no. That's democracy.

I'm not scared of democracy. I think it depends on whether we get the powers we were promised. If he had real home rule or federalism, then most people would be happy with that.

Scotland rejected independence in a decisive vote, forget all this pish about a Holyrood election and move on.

The majority of Scots are not interersted in breaking up the UK at the behest of the us and them, grudge politics of the SNP.

Their silence on the issue addressed in the VB statement also shows that their hypocricy on sectarianism knows no bounds.

[Ballochger 36]

A don't care if we lose a hell of a lot of supporters if we stopped yes voters and republicans supporting us

fuck it we can build a stadium in a good prodestant town like Larkhall or Whitburn out of fuckin yes city and away from they fuckin tarrier pubs littered in Govan

[Wullies_bowly_legs 3,845]

Naw it disnae.

Labour and SNP are both anti-Tory votes.

If there are more anti-Tory votes than Tory votes, then Cameron is out on his arse.

Wow - cannot believe someone actually said that. At the last election there were more anti-tory votes than Tory votes but somehow David Cameron ended up as Prime Minister.

[Inigo 32,534]

A don't care if we lose a hell of a lot of supporters if we stopped yes voters and republicans supporting us

fuck it we can build a stadium in a good prodestant town like Larkhall or Whitburn out of fuckin yes city and away from they fuckin tarrier pubs littered in Govan

Hmm. Not sure you'd get all that much support for the idea of us squabbling with Motherwell for supremacy of Lanarkshire.

[Inigo 32,534]

Wow - cannot believe someone actually said that. At the last election there were more anti-tory votes than Tory votes but somehow David Cameron ended up as Prime Minister.

Andy has said for some time that he doesn't believe in the idea of a mandate. I do, and the language of Miliband and Clegg has done nothing to dissuade me from that.

So yes, for me and SNP vote is more likely to mean the Tories in power.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

A don't care if we lose a hell of a lot of supporters if we stopped yes voters and republicans supporting us

fuck it we can build a stadium in a good prodestant town like Larkhall or Whitburn out of fuckin yes city and away from they fuckin tarrier pubs littered in Govan

Believe, they are in the minority amongst us, just a very vocal minority as ever.

It would be for them to set up a new team/stadium, not us.

Ours is s protestant unionist heritage, no matter the revisionism of the appeasers and apologists.

They are bettered ignored, so don't waste oxygen on them.