Warburton Reaction vs Burnley (Video)

[THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812]

Mr Warburton said himself that with respect to the teams we played in the league cup, today against Burnley we'd get a better idea of where we are.

I haven't seen the game today but I get the impression that it's brought a few down with a bump as to where we are. At this point I think it's worth reminding people that what we've signed is players from the lower leagues of England, youngsters that could be anything and with respects to the goalkeeper Gilks and the CB Hill - their best days are probably behind them; is it fair to expect that we'd be better than Burnley bearing in mind where the players we've signed have come from? Is it fair considering what we've spent?!

I've watched a few of our opponents so far and honestly, I'd say the Hibs team we played last season towards the end is of a far better standard than what most of them look like just now - maybe they'll improve but then that could be said for us as well as several players are clearly not fit and/or at the races. It's too early to say what a team will be like when we're into the season. Aberdeen have a few decent players but against NK Maribor and the team they played in the previous round they were punting the ball to nowhere like they were panic defending yet under no pressure to do so, a touch/a look/a pass/a little composure etc. and they'd play much, much better - They should have beaten NK Maribor comfortably imo but played in a fashion where they were incredibly wasteful, they had the touch and pass of table-football. At the opposite end of the spectrum, County and Kilmarnock look like relegation candidates. The two teams that has impressed me most thus far are Motherwell and Caley who look like if they are a bit more ready than most at this stage and look like they'll be top 6 and dare I say fighting it out with Aberdeen for third; yes we beat Motherwell but within the first half we could/should have been 4 down such were the opportunities they created yet failed somehow to take. Hearts look as though they have severe problems in midfield as they have a ton of strikers but create little and they appear to leave the defense wide open ( actually a complaint that's not too far from home in a sense ). Burnley is over and above what we're going to be playing weekly and while the level we're at is a shadow of what we once were it's above what the other teams have got both in personnel and in playing style, just like Burnley should have personnel over and above what we have - they are trying to compete in the top flight of England where a player could be on more per week than our first 11 is. A bitter pill to swallow personally but I concede that it's based on reality.

Now we have ultimately 2 problems;

• We are too slow and indirect in attack allowing the opposition to get back and defend for their lives with 10 men on the 18-yard line, this happened after we dished out a few hammerings last season and it'll be the same tactics to repel us again but crucially it'll be carried out by players above the level of Dumbarton and Livingston. We have to up it a couple of gears in impetus or we'll struggle to score the winning goals like we did so often in the Championship that we can forget a title challenge this season if we don't learn from it and correct it. Possession 30 yards from goal passing it sideways is not 2 goals in itself and against better teams it will come unstuck more often than it did last year.   
• We play a system/style that purposefully leaves the defense open and without much backup for when the opposition attempt to counter us, basically we're asking our defenders to do more than they would at other clubs i.e. Aberdeen will lose the ball and quickly revert to a back 10 to make it difficult for us to score (for all the possession we'll likely have), their defense will have the help of the whole team if we give them the chance. Our defense conversely is expected to do the job without much backup at all i.e. the midfield under this style stay up the field or track back slowly, the theme over Warburton's reign is that when a team is on the counter it's their forwards and maybe midfielders V Wilson and Kiernan. Wallace and Tav are often up the pitch in attack and subsequently often out of position in defense of the break. Neither Wilson nor Kiernan is a commanding CB that can do everything a CB should do well, even players like Amo were prone to the occasional howler but you knew that if a header was going Amo would win that header and be able to play it to the forwards heading it clear from defense such was the power he had on it, you also that he had the ability to run down a capable striker on his own and snuff him out with a crucially timed intercepting challenge; Wilson and Kiernan are CB's that don't win headers, are lax at marking, get left falling over themselves with regularity against even mediocre teams forwards, neither is a commander etc. etc. If we're asking them to do more than a CB than one would at Aberdeen/Caley etc. etc. then it's unfair and actually obvious that they are incapable of doing it. Maybe with a fully primed Hill next to one of them you can cover up their shortcomings like Weir did with Wilson but that's asking Hill to be one hell of a player himself and it's a putting a level of dependency on him I'm not comfortable with (especially after seeing his challenge on the East Stirling player, got mugged and ended up chopping the man he was so off the pace against a player outside of the 4 divisions we actually are somewhat aware of, who can name every team in the Lowland Division?!).

Ultimately 2 solutions;

• Tell the team you want more impetus going forward, train them so that it's 4 passes and a chance created (no more than that), by all means, pass the ball but do so with enough directness that it cuts a team open and creates a chance instead of allowing the whole team to defend creating a standoff. We have the players and ability to fix this one with ease, even against a packed defense if we were a bit sharper in passing and moving we could one-two round teams in the blink of an eye. No point in buying a 5 foot 9" striker when your service is a cross ball when he's marked by two heid-the-baw types at 6 foot 3" and the whole team is zonal marking outwith that because you've went forward in a tippy-tappy fashion that's ground to a halt 30 yards from goal; these teams aren't going to open up and take a tanking weekly off us, if anything they'll be unusual with 'backs to the wall' against us and defending in numbers for their lives because they are playing "the H***"; following week they'll open up against Caley and lose 3 goals on the break after keeping us out for 90 minutes.
• We need a CB that is above the level or Wilson and Kiernan and that's assuming Hill is unfit and will get up to the pace and standard required. It's as simple as that because the Chronic Combo will piss away a title challenge before it's even begun. People think we did amazing last year but in the end, we finished the Division with fewer points than Hearts did the year before and no one was expecting them to challenge the tims for the title. In a normal title winning year you don't drop the points we did and the teams we did drop points against aren't a patch on what we're facing this year (over the course). Without better defenders, you need to change the style i.e. Wallace and Tav stay back, the midfield tracks back fast when we've lost possession, you play with Crooks as a defensive mid to help the CB's out (that may well be the plan as we've yet to see him).

 

 

 

 

[Bears r us 30,798]

I said in the game thread that it seems we have decided to not pay a decent fee for a CH and if that does not change I hope it does not cost us the league. That is not defeatist just how I see it, hopefully I will be proved wrong. 

[NetherburnBear 173]

1 hour ago, will2203 said:

Forgot - hopefully that is the last we see of Cunt Hill because he was a nightmare. Roasted, penalty, no positional sense and head like a three penny bite. Don't know about his kicking skills as he never got near the ball!

Cunt?   ??? Think we know who the Cunt is..Taig talk.?

[Ben10 2,272]

It was a fuckin friendly. I'm actually irritated that the game took place at all. If we won or drew, no one would give a flying fuck and if we lost the game then we also lose or momentum which built up pumping teams in the group stage.

Mark Warburton might piss and moan about the league cup set up, as we all did, but that's the rules handed down from the top. You can negotiate friendly game dates easily. Fuck Burnley and fuck this confidence-draining friendly.

[Grundy 732]

Ibrox Preacher - Agree with the majority of your post " Without better defenders, you need to change the style i.e. Wallace and Tav stay back, the midfield tracks back fast when we've lost possession, you play with Crooks as a defensive mid to help the CB's out (that may well be the plan as we've yet to see him)."  but are Barton and , to an extent, Rossiter, not both meant to be defensive midfielders ?

[kanjo 26,328]

Just me that thinks Burnley were a class above us today? I'm not saying we were awful... we were... but they were excellent today too.  Andre Gray took his two chances and that (as the manager said) is a £15mil strikrer.  The pen wasn't a pen but that is football.

I am convinced that Hill and Kiernan are both not the answer... but I also think Wilson is better than a lot think.  With an experienced, sold partner he will be better.

Warburton looks angry and as we've seen the players got a bollocking.  That is what is good about games like today and I fully expect us to to improve.

[THE_Ibrox_Preacher 2,812]

1 hour ago, Grundy said:

Ibrox Preacher - Agree with the majority of your post " Without better defenders, you need to change the style i.e. Wallace and Tav stay back, the midfield tracks back fast when we've lost possession, you play with Crooks as a defensive mid to help the CB's out (that may well be the plan as we've yet to see him)."  but are Barton and , to an extent, Rossiter, not both meant to be defensive midfielders ?

 

 

 

 

Our set up from the beginning of Warburtons reign has been to attack a team to death with possession and if we lose goals it shouldn't matter as we'll score more. Not always worked in practice but none the less we leave ourselves open defensively when we go forward with this mindset of score 2 for their 1, I'm not sure that's changed yet despite personnel being signed that you'd imagine would suggest we'll change the system to one that's more defensively minded when the situation calls for it (at least).

Crooks is a DM, Barton and Rossiter should be comparatively a defensive midfielder on what we had last year but I don't think either is a DM outright - they're more central midfielders that get stuck in -, hell Krancjar is comparatively a defensive mid on what we had last year (he'll get stuck in even if it's more likely to be at the opposition end). If we're to be better in defence mode we'll either have to alter our formation/tactics/plan etc. to suit and/or we'll need to sign at least 1 better CB than what we have and he'll have to be of a certain level if he too is not going to come up short in the way we play. We can mask the problem with the CB's in some senses by changing the style of play so that we fall back and defend as a team but that would involve either telling the wingbacks to stay back or telling the central midfielders they are part of our back line (in effect), when we lose the ball teams are going to launch it to their paciest player up front and try and run straight through for a goal, alternatively they'll throw cross balls in at a central defensive partnership where neither is seen as someone who heads it clear/wins headers.

Basically, our style of play at present needs CB's well above the combo of Wilson and Kiernan if a title challenge is sincerely being attempted (we assume Hill is one of them and is yet to get up to speed, I've not been impressed by him so far, his tackle against a non-league player was woefully timed to the extent I was instantly concerned, that could just be down to where he is in his preseason though so let's assume for argument that he's David Weir but lacking a little fitness/sharpness currently). Wilson and Kiernan could individually look much better next to a capable CB i.e. Wilson looked a player with Weir doing everything he couldn't, but they just aren't near good enough as a double-act for what we're trying to play, we'd have to alter our plan to cover up "their" failings but we've yet to see if Warburton will alter 'Plan A' in that kind of fashion, so even with a few more defensively minded midfielders we're still open at the back going forward because that punt into space and the runners on the break aren't in their remit. When you watch us Wallace going forward adds to us in a big way but when we lose the ball the ball is played often into the big void where he's meant to be, the opposition player runs down that side of the pitch and plays a ball to one of the other players running towards goal - it leaves Wilson and Kiernan very exposed, this is made worse by the fact that our central midfielders don't track back fast and get into defensive mode, where in the past we'd have Barry/Hemdani etc on the edge of the area doing their bit we don't see that with our midfielders under Warburton - did you ever see Zelalem/Holt doing that last year? Halliday tries and he gets gold stars for effort from me for that but generally speaking we didn't have that type of midfielder and we certainly didn't play like that was the instruction given. The CB's are basically on their own on the break and that wouldn't be a problem if Amo and Bougherra were our CB's. They are not though and it's arguable if Wilson and Kiernan are actually CB's such is their presence for things like a header to be won in the box (they aren't all bad and I stress our style of play makes them look donkeys as much as anything but if there's one thing CB's in Scotland are known for along with everywhere else, it's the ability to win headers and Wilson and Kiernan imo are noticeably not known for it between them).

Midfield has more beef to it and yes it could be instructed by the manager to play a bigger defensive part but frankly I think the best answer all round is to bring in that CB that's everything Wilson and Kiernan are not, assuming of course that Hill is up to that task and that a new CB keeps both Wilson and Kiernan out the team. Changing our style seems unlikely so signing someone that can do the job in the current system is the best answer. The extra grit in midfield should mean we don't have to worry about the defence as much this season but only if we get that CB because Wilson and Kiernan have been shown up against poorer sides than St Johnstone & Hibs.

It should also be noted that a problem last year was creating that chance for all our possession, we have far better players in this regard and with instruction/practice at attacking with more impetus, the defence will be less of a problem as we actually will score that two or three for everyone conceded. I would like to repeat though that I'd like a target man to be signed someone who gives us an aerial threat, we have cross balls in our team now and it seems a missed opportunity to me not to have someone who can head it home or muscle a yard up front.

We're not far away, a CB and a target man known for scoring with the head would make a world of difference, attacking with a bit more desire and pace would do also. We have a couple of issues that can be ironed out with a signing or two, some instruction, a little variation of formation/tactics. We're not on our arse, just a couple of "questions" need answered if a title challenge is on.

[bluenose48 951]

It is obvious to everyone on here that we need two quality CB's.

Its time for DK to open his wallet and spend some of the 50 million he was quoted as being prepared to invest.

We have sold at least 42,000 ST so far, surely some of that money could also be spent on procuring two quality defenders.

Motherwell exposed our defensive frailties in the first game of the season but could not capitalize on them, Sadly there are a few teams in the SPFL that will.

[Ozblue 4,331]

3 hours ago, bluenose48 said:

It is obvious to everyone on here that we need two quality CB's.

Its time for DK to open his wallet and spend some of the 50 million he was quoted as being prepared to invest.

We have sold at least 42,000 ST so far, surely some of that money could also be spent on procuring two quality defenders.

Motherwell exposed our defensive frailties in the first game of the season but could not capitalize on them, Sadly there are a few teams in the SPFL that will.

You are right in what you say Blue, but solving the problem is easier said than done, for many reasons even if Dave King had £30-£50 million to splash out on what we require. The first obvious problem is the wages or transfer fee required to get these guys, who can make a lot more money in the secondary English Leagues (as that is the market Warburton seems mainly to deal in) apart from Rossiter who was a steal.

The less obvious problem is getting quality players to play in a pishy Scottish league where we can't entice them with any European games at the moment. I read on here time after time posters saying; "So and so was available and is heaps better than who we have got, blah blah blah, so why didn't Warburton go after them?"

Do they never stop to think that Frank McParland who is a very knowledgeable and clever scout hasn't approached these players or their clubs, but been knocked back for the simple reason they don't want to come to Scotland?

We don't know the financial situation Warburton is working under, but I can just about guarantee that if he had the money to spend and a player was willing to sign, then he would have already been on our books.

[Swagger 7,967]

I'm concerned the defensive side of things hasn't been improved. Given games the midfield has the potential to be really strong, up front we will miss a few but given the chances the team are likely to get we should always have enough to get by most teams fairly comfortably. If we are serious about sustaining a title challenge then our current defence will not be good enough - I just don't really get why the management haven't addressed the issue. Burnley was poor but they are well ahead of what we have. More concerning is the likes of the Motherwell game where they managed to get through a good few times. Silly goals, cheap goals will be conceded. I just hope he can pull a quick mobile centre half out of the bag fairly soon

[weshallnotbemoved! 714]

Defensively shit but still offered contrsct extensions early. Not much sense in that.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

The board has to back his spending, he's clearly not a manager that wants to spend big, he wants to develop young players and only add players that add value to the squad. So if we fall short, we know the board have not backed him reasonably.

You can say the board have done this and that but at the end of the day they have to back a manager and allow him to spend reasonably, looking at our season ticket sales etc we deserve more to be spent. I do not expect us to buy a 5m player, that's the thing, we are talking a fifth of that - but I doubt most of us will be 100% sure our board would even allow warburton that amount on a transfer atm.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

13 hours ago, dummiesoot said:

Never does a bear call a Rangers player cunt, by process of elimination you must be an Earl. Congratulations 116 posts before you outed yersel'

People are annoyed, and not just about this game, but about the clueless defending that has been evident since warburton took over.

We all thought this would be sorted out ready our return to the premiership, however it hasn't.

We signed Clint Hill.

We have a right to be pissed off.

[Bestie 25]

13 hours ago, Daz said:

Warburton has no doubt suggested various defensive options to the board. The biggest problem is we probably don't have the money to buy most of them and any that we can afford will not be allowed to leave their clubs. I'm sure MW and DW will come up with a solution.

Warburton for me is too pig headed to go against his own beliefs that attack is the best form of defense.

It's blatantly obvious that we will see many games  his season when we have An offday and concede more than we score.

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,647]

First time I've seen MW a bit rattled, spoke well but obviously knows the weaknesses he's going into the title challenge with, going to be a bit of a roller coaster of a ride though looks like, hopefully a win against Hamilton will calm the cookies ! 

[dummiesoot 16,006]

24 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

People are annoyed, and not just about this game, but about the clueless defending that has been evident since warburton took over.

We all thought this would be sorted out ready our return to the premiership, however it hasn't.

We signed Clint Hill.

We have a right to be pissed off.

Yes we signed him, yes we can be pissed off, you don't call a Rangers player a cunt, especially when has played not even a handful of games for us. Have a fucking word with yourself.

[Rangers Lady 2,380]

 

Burnley  a step up, I agree horrible as that sounds when I look at vids on Youtube with Laudrup, Parlane Cooper

Burnley haven’t had as many games or time pre season, we should be fitter than them 

For me Rob Kiernan has ran out of favours,

I watched the whole game, he can’t get back to make a tackle, always outpaced, he pulls up early rather than helping out and his starting point with a ball over the top is woeful 

I hope the lad can turn it around but these are fundamentals not bonus/flair add ons like Boogie e.g. had

[will2203 821]

Dummiesoot - less than 2 games does not make him a Ranger and hopefully we don't see him a third time. Forty years of going to Ibrox gives me my say, regardless of only posting 116 times. Huge frustration at yesterday's piss poor performance and a few beers brought out the Clint word but really....an earl? Yesterday's out of the system, as someone wrote ..it was only a friendly...still don't like that kind of performance and people paying to see it. I got it on my season ticket but still wasted an afternoon. Onwards and upwards....bring on the Hamilton accuse. Get intae them!

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

7 minutes ago, dummiesoot said:

Yes we signed him, yes we can be pissed off, you don't call a Rangers player a cunt, especially when has played not even a handful of games for us. Have a fucking word with yourself.

me? when did i call him a cunt?

have a few words with yourself

[pcbear 10,913]

12 hours ago, kanjo said:

Just me that thinks Burnley were a class above us today? I'm not saying we were awful... we were... but they were excellent today too.  Andre Gray took his two chances and that (as the manager said) is a £15mil strikrer.  The pen wasn't a pen but that is football.

I am convinced that Hill and Kiernan are both not the answer... but I also think Wilson is better than a lot think.  With an experienced, sold partner he will be better.

Warburton looks angry and as we've seen the players got a bollocking.  That is what is good about games like today and I fully expect us to to improve.

Strikers like Andre Gray start somewhere, he was playing for Luton Town in the conference 2 years ago when Warburton signed him for Brentford, that's the time to grab them.

There must be quality centre backs around in England that would be a step up from ours for not a lot of £££s

Am I the only one to think that missing out on Greg Stewart would be a mistake.

[Teddy bear 1873 57]

Defence is obviously needing sorted, but that being said if you took Andre grey out the game it might of went our way, we wasn't at our best the day apart from  Andy Halliday who for me is a starter every week, and when the subs that came on we looked more solid.  Replace kiernen and use hill against the not so good teams and we will win the league

[Malvern 11,329]

15 hours ago, dummiesoot said:

Never does a bear call a Rangers player cunt, by process of elimination you must be an Earl. Congratulations 116 posts before you outed yersel'

My first thought exactly when I saw his posts.

[K.A.I 36,183]

"Lots and lots of positives"

wtf 

[dummiesoot 16,006]

3 hours ago, Jack The Flipper said:

me? when did i call him a cunt?

have a few words with yourself

You Defended his use of the word cunt. Anyway we can agree to disagree

[Dutchy 1,200]

I remember when MW came to the club and he basically said we'll lose goals, but as long as we score more than the opposition, we'll do fine.

Well we've got the losing goals down to a fine art these days, when are we going to start scoring more.

For all the pressure we create, we still seem to want to walk the ball into the net. It's not working!

Teams know how to deal with our approach, no problem. We need more shots on goal and corners, in the main should be whipped into the box.

I said all this last season and was mocked for not being a manager and people happy to know that I wasn't.

To all the detractors, what do you think we should do. Carry on regardless, or get all our obviously talented players trying something new.

Then maybe we can get by with the shite defence we seem to favour ATM.