Are we still a Scottish Protestant club?

[McEwan's Lager 30,893]

Anyway, back on topic after that discussion on theology and liturgy

My view on this is as follows:

Rangers were founded by middle-class protestant boys. But we were not founded as a protestant club. On the other hand Everton, Birmingham City, Aston Villa, Bolton Wanderers, Manchester City, Southampton and Tottenham Hotspur were all clubs founded out of protestant churches. 

Obviously Celtic, the original Hibernian, and the original Dundee United were formed out of catholic churches.

However due to immigration from Ireland (from both sides of the religion), the political troubles there in the early 20th century and the fact that the other successful team in the city had a very public identity as a Irish and Catholic team, Rangers naturally attracted the rest of the population towards it. We also had the the committee deciding to move from Kinning Park to Ibrox in the late 1800s because it was a growth area and overspill area from Glasgow. It meant that the club was in the heartland of the shipyards which in turn was the heartland of the protestant workforce.

I think it is safe to say that because of this, from the end of WWI to quite possibly the present day we had/have the identity of a protestant club. The majority of our support is from a cultural protestant background. Some go to church, some don't. The Orange Order at one time was an institution that was closely linked to our club. As was the Boys Brigade.

Times have changed but I think a large majority of the support would still consider the club protestant or at least culturally protestant. 

I actually think there is a stronger case for Rangers being labelled a masonic club than a protestant club. I believe that by far a greater number of supporters, directors and players of the club have been masons over regular church goers and members of the Orange Order. The interior architecture of the Main Stand is inarguably masonic. 

Also, I think British Unionism has actually been more of an official policy of the board over the years than the club being protestant. The Union Flag has always flown over the stadium. Alan Morton as a director was publicly committed to British Unionism. David Murray was strongly pro-Union.

As for me? I'm an agnostic who is probably an atheist. I have no real time for any religion to be honest but I do respect religions and I respect the history and traditions of the club.

I support Rangers largely because I am from a culturally protestant Glaswegian background - despite not being from Glasgow myself. My Dad's side ticks the boxes of the OO, Ulster immigrants, the BB, and shipyard workers. I think all of those have a place in the history of the club and I don't think its something we ought to apologise for.

 

[The Ibrox Derry 9,029]

Yes, and we always will be, despite the apologist bridge builders, who are clearly ashamed of their proud Protestant heritage. For me, I make no fucking apology to anyone for being a Scottish Protestant and Rangers supporter.

[eosmhdo 1,879]

Without a doubt imo

[plumbGER 24,518]

10 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I think all of those have a place in the history of the club and I don't think its something we ought to apologise for.

Good post in it's entirety but i like this bit

The demonising of of traditions through the years by rabid beggars and a ever willing helpful press have seen a lot of our celebrity fans be afraid to openly support us, to a certain extent their could be rank and file fans in the same boat but i wouldn't think so.

As @.Williamson. said in another thread, Bears who openly call themselves H*** gets right on my tits, especially when talking to a beggar as they were the original H*** as is often pointed out on this forum.

Be proud of what we are, never show any shame to most shameful scummy club in the worlds supporters.

[.Williamson. 83,971]

We're a unionist club. 

I don't see how anyone could say otherwise 

[Gman36 3,456]

45 minutes ago, tannerall said:

On the other hand many of our supporters still have a strong leaning towards the Protestant faith, but many more only embrace the anti-Catholic traditons of our traditional supporters when following and supporting the club, and don't actually follow the Protestant faith.  

Personally I embrace a bit of both, I like the traditions, but would like to be able to keep my ingrained dislike of the Catholic faith seperate from my football, and especially my football team. 

I would gladly pull the Catholic church down, and I would gladly tear the current Scottish political system apart. Even if football and my team did not exist.

Both politics and religion have no influence or bearing on which football team I support, in my mind they are seperate issues.  I am a Rangers fan.

It's a bleak outlook for the culture if it's traditions are viewed upon as being for the most part on an anti-catholic basis. It's a negative supposition, with nothing positive to bind people together.

Successive generations are unlikely to be held together on this basis. 

[Bears 794]

6 hours ago, RJMcGregor said:

And you're religion is based upon a 2000 year old book, first written 300 years after the death of Chirst. Meddled with at the Conference of Nicaea. Do you really think the rulers of the time didn't fuck about with the contents of the bible to make the populous easier to manage?

Also how do you deal with the sheer contradictions or unscientific claims in the bible such as a Flat Earth?

Nope, some of it is much older, last part written about 60 years after Christ died. The content was confirmed at the Council of Nicaea. And no, too many copies about to be fiddled with.

And there is no specific idea of a flat earth in the Bible but definitely mentions of the curve of the Earth and the Earth being round.

[McEwan's Lager 30,893]

Just now, plumbGER said:

Good post in it's entirety but i like this bit

The demonising of of traditions through the years by rabid beggars and a ever willing helpful press have seen a lot of our celebrity fans be afraid to openly support us, to a certain extent their could be rank and file fans in the same boat but i wouldn't think so.

As @.Williamson. said in another thread, Bears who openly call themselves H*** gets right on my tits, especially when talking to a beggar as they were the original H*** as is often pointed out on this forum.

Be proud of what we are, never show any shame to most shameful scummy club in the worlds supporters.

I have no idea why anyone would want to be called a H** to be honest. My old man tells me that when he was a lad the Bears would sing 'go home you H***' to them when winning with 5 mins to go and they would do the same to us. If we were playing a cup game and heard they had lost the fans used to sing 'the H*** are out the cup' and i'm sure they did. How and when did it become a one sided thing against us?

In regards to Celtic, while I obviously hate the club, I honestly don't begrudge anyone who supports them because they are a cultural irish catholic descended person in Scotland.  That's their identity and they can do what they want. I just get pissed off when they give the bigots patter and want to shut down the singing of songs or whatever. We should be able to sing our cultural songs and they should be able to sing theirs.

I also laugh at smaller clubs fans who give the whole 'two sides of the same arse-cheek' 'ugly sisters' patter because largely they are jealous of the two clubs success and the typical supporter of either club doesn't fit into their view of what a Scottish person should be and what their politics should be.

 

[plumbGER 24,518]

4 minutes ago, Gman36 said:

It's a bleak outlook for the culture if it's traditions are viewed upon as being for the most part on an anti-catholic basis. It's a negative supposition, with nothing positive to bind people together.

Successive generations are unlikely to be held together on this basis. 

Brother Walfrid (beast) founded that vile club based on his anti-protestant stance did he not?

That will explain the chip on the shoulder attitude of their fans.

[bordersbear 1,105]

28 minutes ago, The Ibrox Derry said:

Yes, and we always will be, despite the apologist bridge builders, who are clearly ashamed of their proud Protestant heritage. For me, I make no fucking apology to anyone for being a Scottish Protestant and Rangers supporter.

My sentiments exactly however I have no issues with any race , ethnic, colour etc. Even Catholics as long as they don't support them!

[plumbGER 24,518]

5 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I also laugh at smaller clubs fans who give the whole 'two sides of the same arse-cheek' 'ugly sisters' patter because largely they are jealous of the two clubs success and the typical supporter of either club doesn't fit into their view of what a Scottish person should be and what their politics should be.

A few years back i fell out with a lot of people over this very point.

Supporters of my local team (Morton) who always used to try have a go at myself and other old firm fans because the politics involved with a lot of our fanbases, they prided themselves in supporting a local club and not bringing politics to the game on a Saturday.....then they decide to set up a facebook page "Morton fans for independence" fucking hypocrite bastards and i wasted no time in telling them so.

[McEwan's Lager 30,893]

14 minutes ago, plumbGER said:

A few years back i fell out with a lot of people over this very point.

Supporters of my local team (Morton) who always used to try have a go at myself and other old firm fans because the politics involved with a lot of our fanbases, they prided themselves in supporting a local club and not bringing politics to the game on a Saturday.....then they decide to set up a facebook page "Morton fans for independence" fucking hypocrite bastards and i wasted no time in telling them so.

I don't think it could be reasonably argued with that if Rangers and Celtic, with identities that transcend something wider than Scottishness, did not exist in the forms they do then Scottish football would be on the same level as the Republic or Northern Ireland. The Glasgow clubs would probably have a more widely distributed fanbase for a start.

Edit: The other clubs call us bigots but they are just as bigoted because we don't conform to their views of what it means to be Scottish. Its hilarious.

[Orange Persson 548]

My answer to the OP is ..........ohhhhhhhhh yes!

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,725]

[BarcelonaBear1690 19]

10 hours ago, minstral said:

We are known all over the world as a Protestant club.

The last old firm game I was sitting in a almost empty Barcelona sports bar watching when a Catalan family came in and sat at the table beside me, "who's playing?" The boy asked his dad, who looked at the television for a moment before answering "england vs ireland"

The truth is,  no one gives a fuck about Scottish football never mind the politics of it all. No one understands our history outside of the U.K. 

[falkirkNS 6,298]

A proud scottish presbyterian who serves HM Forces amongst living in NI with an Ulster Scot son. Religion plays a big part on my life and im proud of it, an Orangeman, an apprentice boy, a Somme society member. As British as they come...

Our club was brought up by presbyterians and founded on these ways. 

To the new age bears who are SNP or left wing mixed up people then they'll try and trying to change the support and the foundations our club was brought up by. 

Answer me this please? Why follow a club that is everything your religion n politics is'nt???

As the cry was then under the crimson banner as it is now, NO Surrender!

[minstral 5,375]

4 minutes ago, BarcelonaBear1690 said:

The last old firm game I was sitting in a almost empty Barcelona sports bar watching when a Catalan family came in and sat at the table beside me, "who's playing?" The boy asked his dad, who looked at the television for a moment before answering "england vs ireland"

The truth is,  no one gives a fuck about Scottish football never mind the politics of it all. No one understands our history outside of the U.K. 

Many years ago we were known all over the world, who gives a fuck about Spain, all pape lovers.

[plumbGER 24,518]

20 minutes ago, BarcelonaBear1690 said:

No one understands our history outside of the U.K. 

Well that's a lie.

[writingranger 1,427]

5 hours ago, OneDavidCooper said:

Paper Roses

crazy horses

[theiconicman 3,022]

12 hours ago, The Widow's Son said:

As a Bear of a certain vintage, I grew up cheering for a Scottish Protestant team starting in the 1950's.  Our players were Scottish (for the most part) and Protestant, our club ethics and traditions were so, our fans were and their songs were too.  I never, ever want to whine about "the good old days" largely because I've never believed in that mentality but it's harder for any pro sports team in any arena or market to remain unchanged these days.  The bottom line, sponsorship, phone number salaries for the players, agents and endorsements have an impact.  Our Orange associations are gone, few if any players arrive via the BB, in fact few are even Scottish.  Is it possible to explain our heritage to new arrivals from overseas?  Will they listen?  Do they care?  

Through the years, I've read many posts suggesting that Scotland has changed and inevitably Rangers must too.  Maybe older Bears will see (and feel) more changes than younger Bears.  I still cheer for my team and defend them to the hilt even in these foreign parts but our club has changed.

What I'm trying to remember is: did my dad and grandfather tell me that the Rangers of the 1950's had changed from his childhood?    

Our history is just that, history. Football is not what it was and clubs are now businesses. Our club was never founded on religious grounds. We certainly have had strong proud Protestant leaders at our club that have instilled values and ethics into our working, but its not what we're about frankly.We should be proud of our history, but we shouldn't let it bind us.

And all evidence would suggest that other than 50s-70s (a short period in our history) this Protestant club is a myth.

 

[theweebluenose 4,335]

The Protestants of Glasgow, or Protestants of Blue is how I seem to remember the Italian press recently describing us as.

Like it or not we will always be identified white working class Protestant, Loyalist and Unionist community of Scotland and Northern Ireland.

[The Godfather 72,818]

12 hours ago, PSL said:

I guess we are on paper but highly doubt if even 10% of out support is in any way religious. 

So 10% are ethnic?

 

[danger ranger 922]

12 hours ago, William Scott said:

We should accept all walks of life. I've never seen the point in hating a human being simply because of their religious beliefs, sexuality or political opinions.

  

[The Godfather 72,818]

7 hours ago, DeanMK said:

I don't think you could consider a majority of our support to be Protestant anymore. The world has changed a lot over the last few decades in respect to the population of non-religious people. It's taken it's toll on many things, our club included.

Maybe I'm wrong and I'm just underestimating the amount of people of genuine Protestant faith still within the support but I'd imagine they're in the minority these days.

When I hear Simply The Best getting belted out I just assume it's aw proddys. Maybe a wee sneaky Catholic or Turk in there giving it laldy to impress the troops.

[SuperPapac05 3,383]

5 hours ago, .Williamson. said:

We're a unionist club. 

I don't see how anyone could say otherwise 

My thoughts exactly. Fuck the religious aspect, couldny care less what faith someone with a Gers top is. Main focus is that we're a support that proudly supports our Union, honours the fighting men and women who go out and fight for us and advacates against molesting innocent children.