The confidence in Michael Beale

[Negri's lovechild 15,386]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How many Celtic fans do you think were sitting after Helicopter Sunday thinking 'we done really well only losing the title by a point on the last day'? @mitre_mouldmaster

And we've failed that spectacularly in the league overall in the last few seasons they have an expectation to win the title while a section of our support are happy being the nearly men. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,609]

18 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

“Winning is all that matters” is a very one dimensional statement. Lennon won the league because he inherited a good squad and we were shite.

They adopted the “he won the title” approach so everything is fine. And it fucked them. Because he is a shite manager. And it could/should have cost them more than just one title.

Of course winning is the end goal. But it’s about maximising our chance of winning. And not just over a single season.

One of the things I hated most about Wilson+ Gio. Was not just because of the two leagues lost. But they built a squad that would go on to lose two more cups and need so much work that we’re underdogs for next year as well.

The rot started under gerrard that was massively covered up with the title win, the squad was throwing away leagues and cups under gerrard, the fact we didnt win the treble in the lockdown season is a disgrace and showed just how fucking weak the players he recruited were

[beararse 6,885]

16 hours ago, Helicopter Sundae said:

Just hang on the fuck a minute here. We conceded pathetic sloppy goals against them in at least 2 matches last season, and Sakala missed two glorious opportunities to change history, which he fucked. When the dust had settled and we played them at ours, we fucked them 3:0. They are only ahead because their tails were up and their confidence sky high. This shite about us being miles behind is interesting. WE GOT TO A EUROPEAN FINAL not that long ago, and stunned everyone by qualifying the hard way for last season's Champions League. What happened there totally destroyed all confidence in the team. That is the difference. Beale bailed out the sinking ship and acquitted himself pretty well with defeats by them sometimes caused by our own errors. Now he is putting his own stamp on HIS team, we will see. 

‘Logically’ is maybe a better turn of phrase than ‘realistically’.

All logic points towards us being second favourites.

For whatever the reasons, they have the habit of winning trophies. We have the habit of shooting ourselves in the foot.

They have had first dibs on the CL money for years, we’ve had to rely on share issues and unexpected euro runs.

They have a new manager who won every single domestic trophy available in his first stint as manager, we have a manger who was a coach when we won 1 from a possible 11 trophies. 

Removing emotion and applying logic, they are clearly favourites.

But what is football without emotion.

Hopefully we carry the end of season/‘dead rubber’ momentum into 23/24 and develop a winning habit again and fuck them over as we do.

 

[The Dude 20,027]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I just said that he would have decided to stay and still be with us...

Like if we are able to sack him, he would have to be employed by us. It's not the boys club.

Why wouldn't the Celtic manager decide to stay?

[cr3_bear 15,533]

Couldn’t care less how attractive the football is . I would take 38 eye gouging 1-0 wins if means that league title is covered in red white and blue ribbons next May 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,609]

17 hours ago, Helicopter Sundae said:

Just hang on the fuck a minute here. We conceded pathetic sloppy goals against them in at least 2 matches last season, and Sakala missed two glorious opportunities to change history, which he fucked. When the dust had settled and we played them at ours, we fucked them 3:0. They are only ahead because their tails were up and their confidence sky high. This shite about us being miles behind is interesting. WE GOT TO A EUROPEAN FINAL not that long ago, and stunned everyone by qualifying the hard way for last season's Champions League. What happened there totally destroyed all confidence in the team. That is the difference. Beale bailed out the sinking ship and acquitted himself pretty well with defeats by them sometimes caused by our own errors. Now he is putting his own stamp on HIS team, we will see. 

When the dust settled we fucked them in a meaningless OF game, the important ones we once again shot ourselves in the foot with both manager and player decisions

They won the big games when it mattered

[OrangeRab 3,384]

12 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Winning IS all that matters. Especially at Rangers and celtic where we are so far ahead of everyone else, repeated failure to win can have huge financial implications.

Yes. Of course it’s the end goal and as you said the financial repercussions are so big. That failing to win now sets us so far back financially.

But it’s one dimensional. Losing the league under Gio’s first year was bad. But it was doubly bad because mistakes were made that would go on to lose a subsequent treble. And potentially cost us a league this year by leaving behind a huge rebuild.

In the limit we could go and borrow and spend £60 million on a bunch of 30 year olds with no resale value and win the league. But that would potentially set us back a decade. 

If we unearthed 5 superstar 22 year olds and won the league. That would probably make us dominate over the next 5 years.

The two aren’t equal.

One of the things I like about Beale is he is putting the ground work in to not only be successful for one year. But for the club to be successful and win over the next 5 years whether he is here or not. Less of the short term Ramsay and Diallo loans. Done with the contracts for the boys in McGregor, Davis and Arfield. Getting our recruitment sorted and improving the academy. 

[gmcf 35,395]

Aw fuck , here we go  .  

Without reading it all , I can understand MM's point  . We must be looking at progress . Alright , if we end up 10 points or so behind , MB won't survive . If , on the other hand its just one or two , he deserves another shot . Obviously that can only last so long , but in the immediate term its too much of a gamble to bring someone else in if he's only just missed out on a title . 

Tin hat on , away back to work 

 

[OrangeRab 3,384]

9 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

The rot started under gerrard that was massively covered up with the title win, the squad was throwing away leagues and cups under gerrard, the fact we didnt win the treble in the lockdown season is a disgrace and showed just how fucking weak the players he recruited were

Yep agreed here. The title win was incredible. But we also set in motion a lot  of the mistakes to lose the subsequent cups and titles.

Winning is what matters when you look back at the history books. But you can win and also do things poorly that mean you’re less likely to win in the future. Which is what we did

[The Dude 20,027]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

Yes. Of course it’s the end goal and as you said the financial repercussions are so big. That failing to win now sets us so far back financially.

But it’s one dimensional. Losing the league under Gio’s first year was bad. But it was doubly bad because mistakes were made that would go on to lose a subsequent treble. And potentially cost us a league this year by leaving behind a huge rebuild.

In the limit we could go and borrow and spend £60 million on a bunch of 30 year olds with no resale value and win the league. But that would potentially set us back a decade. 

If we unearthed 5 superstar 22 year olds and won the league. That would probably make us dominate over the next 5 years.

The two aren’t equal.

One of the things I like about Beale is he is putting the ground work in to not only be successful for one year. But for the club to be successful and win over the next 5 years whether he is here or not. Less of the short term Ramsay and Diallo loans. Done with the contracts for the boys in McGregor, Davis and Arfield. Getting our recruitment sorted and improving the academy. 

Winning the title wouldn't set us back a decade. What absolute pish.

If we unearthed 'five superstars' they wouldn't be here for five years to make us dominate.

[The Dude 20,027]

1 minute ago, OrangeRab said:

Yep agreed here. The title win was incredible. But we also set in motion a lot  of the mistakes to lose the subsequent cups and titles.

Winning is what matters when you look back at the history books. But you can win and also do things poorly that mean you’re less likely to win in the future. Which is what we did

Those mistakes (primarily Gerrard demanding his squad not be broken up to fund strengthening) would have happened regardless of winning 55.

[OrangeRab 3,384]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Winning the title wouldn't set us back a decade. What absolute pish.

If we unearthed 'five superstars' they wouldn't be here for five years to make us dominate.

They would be sold for 20million a pop over time. A core of superstars supplement with the eventual 100million extra in fees should make us favourites.

Equally we were set back a decade by previous financial mismanagement so not sure what you’re on about there. Maybe I went too low on the number. Choose 100million.

The point is short term one off results aren’t all that matters. The goal is to maximise title wins over the period. There are many factors that play into it.

[The Dude 20,027]

Just now, OrangeRab said:

They would be sold for 20million a pop over time. A core of superstars supplement with the eventual 100million extra in fees should make us favourites.

Equally we were set back a decade by previous financial mismanagement so not sure what you’re on about there

Or, given the club's financial position, the money would go to filling shortfalls in our accounts with the manager only seeing a small % of that.

Lets also not forget that 'unearthing five superstars' is going to come at a cost. There aren't any players in the Academy just now who, realistically, are close to the first-team never mind being 'superstars' who can help us dominate before being sold for £20m+. How much do you think signing one 22-year-old 'superstar' is going to cost us?

[Loyal72 13,631]

Winning the league would set us back a decade. Have you been smoking ma shit? 😳

Never heard such nonsense. Winning the league can only put us into a position of strength.

Not improving from that position is where problems start.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,511]

23 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Why wouldn't the Celtic manager decide to stay?

He died. Hit by a truck.

[The Dude 20,027]

2 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

He died. Hit by a truck.

So  he was lured away by a bigger club AND died after being hit by a truck. Impressive.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,511]

36 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How many Celtic fans do you think were sitting after Helicopter Sunday thinking 'we done really well only losing the title by a point on the last day'? @mitre_mouldmaster

They didn't sack their manager after, and went on to win the league the next season.

[The Dude 20,027]

3 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

They didn't sack their manager after, and went on to win the league the next season.

They did replace their manager that summer. O'Neill was manager in 04/05 and Strachan took over from him that summer. We kept our manager (McLeish) and finished third in a two-horse race the following season.

[Somemightsay7 3,098]

Given where we are, winning is all that matters.

If we win the league next season with 11 35 year olds and the corpse of Allan McGregor in goals, that is a huge success.

Success and finances then allow you to build a younger squad.

[ForeverAndEver 73,877]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

They did replace their manager that summer. O'Neill was manager in 04/05 and Strachan took over from him that summer. We kept our manager (McLeish) and finished third in a two-horse race the following season.

You’d think he’d check this stuff before talking shite

[OrangeRab 3,384]

17 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Or, given the club's financial position, the money would go to filling shortfalls in our accounts with the manager only seeing a small % of that.

Lets also not forget that 'unearthing five superstars' is going to come at a cost. There aren't any players in the Academy just now who, realistically, are close to the first-team never mind being 'superstars' who can help us dominate before being sold for £20m+. How much do you think signing one 22-year-old 'superstar' is going to cost us?

It was a limit case. The point is not all wins are equal. I’m not suggesting we just go out and sign 5 22 year old superstars ffs 😂

A win that comes with top notch recruitment etc that set you up for more wins is better than a win where you leave behind a crippled squad that’s not capable of winning again for years. 

 

[kelvd1873 7,659]

FWIW I don’t think beale needs reminding what he has to do next season. Imo he understands the club very well and would love nothing more than to humble the local football team. It wasn’t beales fault players shat the bed against them at various times last season. I think he knows who to keep and who to move on and hopefully we have a more clinical side next season. 

[The Dude 20,027]

2 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

It was a limit case. The point is not all wins are equal. I’m not suggesting we just go out and sign 5 22 year old superstars ffs 😂

A win that comes with top notch recruitment etc that set you up for more wins is better than a win where you leave behind a crippled squad that’s not capable of winning again for years. 

 

Here's a novel idea...continually refresh your squad. Bring new faces in rather than going to the well time and again with the same group. It's much easier to do from a position of strength than being the nearly men every year.

[OrangeRab 3,384]

20 minutes ago, Loyal72 said:

Winning the league would set us back a decade. Have you been smoking ma shit? 😳

Never heard such nonsense. Winning the league can only put us into a position of strength.

Not improving from that position is where problems start.

If it bankrupted us it would. It’s a simple example to point out the fallacy in saying winning is all that matters. It’s by far the most important thing given the CL money now. But it’s a one dimensional statement

[OrangeRab 3,384]

Just now, The Dude said:

Here's a novel idea...continually refresh your squad. Bring new faces in rather than going to the well time and again with the same group. It's much easier to do from a position of strength than being the nearly men every year.

 100% agreed.