Club 1872 Meeting.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 hour ago, Sweetheart said:

There is a request on twitter for life and monthly member to contact RF or RST they are making some sort of list

 

WTF, is that all about? 

[Sweetheart 8,458]

10 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

WTF, is that all about? 

Not sure. It maybe related to this about a members register and knowing what the key voting numbers are.

 

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

9 hours ago, RFC Eagle said:

200 clubs with affiliated fans groups doesn't seem too shabby to me and plenty of fans are glad of the support (maybe a trip to AFC Wimbledon would be educational for you or FC United or Exeter City) as its saved their club from extinction after mismanagement or enabled fans to form phoenix clubs (AFC Rushden and Diamonds, Chester FCand Darlington 1883) to bring football back to their communities.

Most organisations like SD will look to increase funding so that they can expand the work they do. That doesn't make them 'begging bowl organisations'.

However much I despise the man could you tell me what would preclude Houston from standing on a legal basis? What grounds would he fail a standard vetting process on?

You still haven't answered the main question as to why you think that fans shouldn't have an influence on clubs they put millions of pounds into?

Its not SD that have failed its C1872 that is failing, they aren't an SD member. Maybe if they were they'd have to be run properly as they'd have to produce audited accounts and have a properly structured Board rather than the shambles we see now. 

As for 'doing my research' I can guarantee I've had more interaction with SD than yourself having been at one of their earliest conferences to interacting with many supporters from clubs that are fan owned or have SD affiliated fans groups over a number of years. I pointed out in earlier posts that there are individuals that latch on to SD for their own egos but the majority of the organisation is made up of football fans who want to do something positive.

FFS. So now Rangers are the equivalent of Exeter City, Chester FC et alia. If you really think that then your idea of Rangers is vastly different from mine.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

13 minutes ago, Corky True Legend said:

FFS. So now Rangers are the equivalent of Exeter City, Chester FC et alia. If you really think that then your idea of Rangers is vastly different from mine.

Is that really what you took from that?

I was pointing to some of the clubs that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the intervention of organised SD supporter groups and picked the ones that are fan owned as examples of what SD does. Would the Arsenal Trust or Spirit of Shankly meet with your approval as SD affiliated groups or Schalke 04 in Germany?

At no stage did I remotely compare the size of the clubs mentioned. They do all require the same level of constitution and governance within their supporter CIC groups and have successfully used SD models and comprehensive advice to give supporters more of a voice at their club to the level of owning the entire club. Maybe you should read the entirety of the thread and all the posts within it rather than take a leap into a comparison that was never made other than in your mind.

Other EPL SD Affiliated trusts:

Chelsea

Tottenham

Leicester

Swansea

Watford

Everton 

Fan ownership is not a universal aim but giving supporters a voice and protecting clubs from unscrupulous owners/Boards definitely is. Having an organisation like SD as an umbrella organisation may have prevented the current debacle, instead they were used to sell the concept and ditched before nthey could start asking about constitutions and office bearers.

 

[The Beast 9,342]

2 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

Is that really what you took from that?

I was pointing to some of the clubs that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the intervention of organised SD supporter groups and picked the ones that are fan owned as examples of what SD does. Would the Arsenal Trust or Spirit of Shankly meet with your approval as SD affiliated groups or Schalke 04 in Germany?

At no stage did I remotely compare the size of the clubs mentioned. They do all require the same level of constitution and governance within their supporter CIC groups and have successfully used SD models and comprehensive advice to give supporters more of a voice at their club to the level of owning the entire club. Maybe you should read the entirety of the thread and all the posts within it rather than take a leap into a comparison that was never made other than in your mind.

Other EPL SD Affiliated trusts:

Chelsea

Tottenham

Leicester

Swansea

Watford

Everton 

Fan ownership is not a universal aim but giving supporters a voice and protecting clubs from unscrupulous owners/Boards definitely is. Having an organisation like SD as an umbrella organisation may have prevented the current debacle, instead they were used to sell the concept and ditched before nthey could start asking about constitutions and office bearers.

 

How is Club 1872 being the 5th largest shareholder protecting the club and fans from our current unscrupulous board?

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

12 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

Is that really what you took from that?

I was pointing to some of the clubs that wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the intervention of organised SD supporter groups and picked the ones that are fan owned as examples of what SD does. Would the Arsenal Trust or Spirit of Shankly meet with your approval as SD affiliated groups or Schalke 04 in Germany?

At no stage did I remotely compare the size of the clubs mentioned. They do all require the same level of constitution and governance within their supporter CIC groups and have successfully used SD models and comprehensive advice to give supporters more of a voice at their club to the level of owning the entire club. Maybe you should read the entirety of the thread and all the posts within it rather than take a leap into a comparison that was never made other than in your mind.

Other EPL SD Affiliated trusts:

Chelsea

Tottenham

Leicester

Swansea

Watford

Everton 

Fan ownership is not a universal aim but giving supporters a voice and protecting clubs from unscrupulous owners/Boards definitely is. Having an organisation like SD as an umbrella organisation may have prevented the current debacle, instead they were used to sell the concept and ditched before nthey could start asking about constitutions and office bearers.

 

So you think that the present board of Club 1872 would run Rangers better? After all, that is what they were set up to do - get FO.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Just now, The Beast said:

How is Club 1872 being the 5th largest shareholder protecting the club and fans from our current unscrupulous board?

It isn't and I never said it was. For the umpteenth time it isn't affiliated to SD. That's the entire point, if we had a credible fans group, properly constituted and organised then it would be a better platform for fans to be seen as something other than a commodity. 

This is from the Spirit of Shankly, while I wouldn't see the Ultimate Aim as the same:

Constant Aims

To represent the best interests of our members and by extension the best interests of the supporters of Liverpool Football Club on both the local and international level.

To hold whoever owns the football club to account.

Ultimate Aim

Supporter ownership of Liverpool Football Club.

Long Term Aim

To bring about supporter representation at board room level

Medium Term Aims

To work with any relevant agencies to improve the area of Anfield.

To build links with grassroots supporter groups.

Short Term Aims

To create long lasting relationships with all aspects of Liverpool FC's supporting community.

To improve the quality of service for Liverpool FC's supporters.

To improve the standard and value of travel arrangements for Liverpool FC's supporters.

 
 

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Just now, Corky True Legend said:

So you think that the present board of Club 1872 would run Rangers better? After all, that is what they were set up to do - get FO.

No I don't, you haven't read any of my posts on the subject if you think that's what I believe. I'm not advocating FO just better representation of Fans (RSCs and Season Ticket holders especially) at the highest levels of the club. Certainly not C1872, as I have made clear time and again. Some accountability to the lifeblood of the club should be something that most can agree on or are you happy to just hand your cash over and keep schtum about everything?

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

11 minutes ago, RFC Eagle said:

No I don't, you haven't read any of my posts on the subject if you think that's what I believe. I'm not advocating FO just better representation of Fans (RSCs and Season Ticket holders especially) at the highest levels of the club. Certainly not C1872, as I have made clear time and again. Some accountability to the lifeblood of the club should be something that most can agree on or are you happy to just hand your cash over and keep schtum about everything?

The aims of SD are FO. Read their website. It is like saying you support Jeremy Corbyn but do not support Hamas if you support Sd but do not want FO.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Just now, Corky True Legend said:

The aims of SD are FO. Read their website. It is like saying you support Jeremy Corbyn but do not support Hamas if you support Sd but do not want FO.

The ideal of SD is FO but they have long realised that that model doesn't fit all situations. Funnily enough I have read the SD website on hundreds of occasions over the years and have spoken to a number of people in the SD set up or in SD fan groups. They have never been solely about FO and hae moved much more to fan engagement over the years. Its nothing like you suggest and its pretty obvious that you have limited knowledge of the SD set up if you think that FO is the only thing they are interested in. 

'Supporters Direct has been working since 2000 to help supporters gain influence in the running and ownership of their club'

http://www.supporters-direct.scot/about/

There you go not solely FO in any way shape or form. 

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

Fan ownership is a dead parrot 

[Rangersfansmediawatch 1,055]

34 minutes ago, Carsons Dog said:

Fan ownership is a dead parrot 

I think people who live in the fantasy land of fan ownership should give us a total breakdown of how they would finance the club including a large transfer budget, Then again the same people would still be telling us decades later that one day Rangers would have 11 players on the pitch who were all brought through the youth system.

[piperpete 3,186]

11 hours ago, Blue Avenger said:

I know it was factual information, but he selectively chose the facts tonsuit his premise as I did mine. 

As for Whitney, It does not confirm his status. The competence required, amongst other things, is directly relevent to the entity involved. A Director of failed one man band two bob off the shelf cleaning company is not the exemplifier for an 1872 entity that oversees/handles public money.

I know the SD history and it isn't hard to find. He has his view of them, I have mine and they are on record as not all sweetness and light. They are not needed to set up a CIC. 72 cited them and hid behind them as an excuse to try and demonstrate the integrity of the candidate process and it's foundation. Can't have it both ways. SD provide advice and not accountable for any of it. They can walk away, as they do. Sure they do some good work, but don't try and hide behind them for purposes of legitimacy as they are not that.

The c1872 members voted him INto post so he IS IN their eyes ok to represent their money. As you have all the credentials to sort them out you should as suggested before stand for ellection. You told us you were a member so you wont ever get a better time to give the people you breath  so you can hate them a bloody nose.

Its a fullmoon so I know your busy howling at the moment but you will have weeks before you need to enter the race.

[siddiqi_drinker 14,635]

3 hours ago, The Beast said:

How is Club 1872 being the 5th largest shareholder protecting the club and fans from our current unscrupulous board?

I'm more concerned about unscrupulous members of C1872

[Taipan 580]

6 hours ago, Sweetheart said:

There is a request on twitter for life and monthly member to contact RF or RST they are making some sort of list

 

@buyrangersfirst is a Twitter account run by @rea 

So pretty much looking for life members, probably to challenge the Club1872 board authority.

The fans do command a significant holding, who shall we have dictate the agenda of our holding?

[Sweetheart 8,458]

1 minute ago, Taipan said:

@buyrangersfirst is a Twitter account run by @rea 

So pretty much looking for life members, probably to challenge the Club1872 board authority.

The fans do command a significant holding, who shall we have dictate the agenda of our holding?

The message says they're wanting to make a list of active online members.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,438]

Excellent.

More power struggles..

[Taipan 580]

3 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

The message says they're wanting to make a list of active online members.

Those engaging are pretty much hardcore fan ownership Bears, many of them RST lifers and RF catalysts, what I like is that the drive is to change the executive not the model, so I think we have our fan ownership model, it's just not functioning as it ought to.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

2 minutes ago, Taipan said:

Those engaging are pretty much hardcore fan ownership Bears, many of them RST lifers and RF catalysts, what I like is that the drive is to change the executive not the model, so I think we have our fan ownership model, it's just not functioning as it ought to.

Maybe they are wanting to put their name forward in the June election. I never thought full FO was on the cards.

Q - How do you see the ownership structure moving forward?
PM – The structure has been all wrong with Ashley controlling things and putting in debt. We will be looking to restructure that. Club needs equity, not debt. The way forward is with fans having a greater level of ownership and having a combination of appropriate investors.
PM - Ideally something like a third owned by wealthy fans like Dave King and Douglas Park, a third owned by fans as a whole and a third owned by 'blue chip' investors. That would be a good structure.

http://dothebouncy.com/main/threads/rst-meeting-with-paul-murray-john-gilligan.64167/

[Taipan 580]

17 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Excellent.

More power struggles..

The one thing that is obvious is that there are Bears we all trust, that believe in our having a voice at board level, these are not the manipulists, not the policy writers, nor the populist.

They are the season ticket holders, the away support, the RSCs.

These are the people we should entrust our holding to, and they should direct not administer. 

[thebooler 4,509]

3 minutes ago, Taipan said:

The one thing that is obvious is that there are Bears we all trust, that believe in our having a voice at board level, these are not the manipulists, not the policy writers, nor the populist.

They are the season ticket holders, the travellers, the RSCs.

These are the people we should entrust our holding to, and they should direct not administer. 

Quality post. Short and to the point.

[Taipan 580]

Just now, thebooler said:

Quality post. Short and to the point.

I changed 'the travellers' ?

[Rangersfansmediawatch 1,055]

1 hour ago, Taipan said:

I changed 'the travellers' ?

Hopefully this ones not a member

 

[Corky True Legend 2,682]

4 hours ago, RFC Eagle said:

The ideal of SD is FO but they have long realised that that model doesn't fit all situations. Funnily enough I have read the SD website on hundreds of occasions over the years and have spoken to a number of people in the SD set up or in SD fan groups. They have never been solely about FO and hae moved much more to fan engagement over the years. Its nothing like you suggest and its pretty obvious that you have limited knowledge of the SD set up if you think that FO is the only thing they are interested in. 

'Supporters Direct has been working since 2000 to help supporters gain influence in the running and ownership of their club'

http://www.supporters-direct.scot/about/

There you go not solely FO in any way shape or form. 

How on earth do you reconcile the portion which you have put in bold with your final sentence. They are diametrically opposed.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

6 hours ago, Carsons Dog said:

Fan ownership is a dead parrot 

RF & 1872 was never about fan ownership.