Substitutions

[STEPPS BOY 73,915]

3 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

They’ve all played a part in pressure points of the season. Barker has played in Europe a few times as well. Massive overreaction to say he doesn’t trust the bench when Hagi, Barker, Helander and Bassey off the top of my head have all played in Europe under Gerrard. In fact Basseys best performance was Leige away so absolute nonsense to say he doesn’t trust them

Bassey came on due to a Barasic injury in Liege.

Barker and Hagi haven’t kicked a ball in either Benfica game.

[real boydie9 17,609]

I love Stevie G but his lack of substitutions in important times of a match does my head in. He should have changed things when we went two up. Cost us a win tonight, IMO. However sitting joint top with Benfica, I would have taken that before the group stage games started. I think we all would have. We're still going through. 

[Prso's headband 35,450]

1 minute ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Bassey came on due to a Barasic injury in Liege.

Barker and Hagi haven’t kicked a ball in either Benfica game.

So? If he didn’t trust him as much as you say he wouldn’t have played at all. The overreaction is ridiculous now tbh. Like I said they players have played in Europe under Gerrard, simple as that. It’s poor management not a trust issue. People just desperate to look for something that clearly isn’t there

[STEPPS BOY 73,915]

2 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

So? If he didn’t trust him as much as you say he wouldn’t have played at all. The overreaction is ridiculous now tbh. Like I said they players have played in Europe under Gerrard, simple as that. It’s poor management not a trust issue. People just desperate to look for something that clearly isn’t there

Why did none of them come on tonight when, the front 3 in particular, where out on their arses?

i guarantee Jack and Aribo would have been on.

[AlCapone 7,678]

1 hour ago, JamieD said:

Don’t get me wrong, Gerrard deserves a lot of credit just for the fact that here we are raging that we haven’t got two wins against a team who spent 100 million euros this season, when we feel we deserve them, and I would have bitten your arm off for two points from Benfica when the draw came out, but we are allowed FIVE subs in this tournament. Five. That is half the outfield team who can be replaced with fresh players, for a team absolutely dominating with a pressing game. What can possibly explain Gerrard’s reluctance to use them? Will he learn from this?

Right, I’ve educated you and they other  pussies @psb07158@left wingerfor years in the politics forum so let me educate you over here as well.

Lack of subs? Okay his decision was based on the next game, Falkirk away at 5pm on Sunday so he could afford to drain the legs. This was vastly influenced by the unfortunate fact we had Aribo , jack and Zungu all injured, if Jack  and Aribo had been fit and on the bench they would have came on at 60 minutes. Now look at the players on the park. No change required in the back 5.  In Midfield, Davis and Kamara were the only two that could play their position/role so that’s 7 out of 11 you couldn’t replace. Up front Kent, Alfredo and roofe were all having a good game and full of energy so that’s 10 you couldn’t replace. That only leaves Arfield and again he was having a good influential game and still motoring 

The only players on the bench that would have been safe to bring on were Barker, Hagi and Itten. Barker would have been a replacement for Kent, Itten for Alfie and Hagi for Roofe but the simple fact was that all of these players on the field were playing well and the subs would have weakened the team. No one else on the bench would have made us stronger in any position. The other subs?  who would you have brought McLaughlin, Barjonas, Bassey, Helander, Dickson, King, or Stewart on for?

The worrying thing  is that for the first time this season we had a weak bench, a very weak bench and with our next game being as easy as it gets he could afford to take the risk of draining the legs of  the starting eleven.

in short if Aribo and jack had of been on the bench they would have came on and if we had of say been playing Hibs at midday on Sunday subs would have been made.

clever strategic thinking by the manager. No short term leftie thinking 

[johanhentze 14,089]

14 minutes ago, AlCapone said:

Right, I’ve educated you for years in the politics forum so let me educate you here as well.

Lack of subs? Okay his decision was based on the next game, Falkirk away at 5pm on Sunday so he could afford to drain the legs. This was vastly influenced by the unfortunate fact we had Aribo , jack and Zungu all injured, if Jack  and Aribo had been fit and on the bench they would have came on at 60 minutes. Now look at the players on the park. No change required in the back 5.  In Midfield, Davis and kamara were the only two that could play their positions so that’s 7 out of 11 you couldn’t replace. Up front Kent, Alfredo and roofe were all having a good game and full of energy so that’s 10 you couldn’t replace. That only leaves Arfield and again he was having a good influential game and still motoring 

The only players on the bench that would have been safe to bring on were Barker, Hagi and Itten. Barker would have been a replacement for Kent, Itten  for Alfie and Hagi for Roofe but the simple fact was that all of these players on the field were playing well and the subs would have weakened the team. No one else on the bench would have made us stronger in any position.

the worry is that for the first time this season we had a weak bench, a very weak bench and with our next game being as easy as it gets he could afford to take the risk of draining the legs of  the starting eleven.

in short if Aribo and jack had of been  on the bench they would have came on and if we had of say been playing  Hibs at midday on Sunday subs would have been made.

clever strategic thinking by the manager. No short term leftie thinking 

This. 

[Bad Robot 21,150]

1 hour ago, STEPPS BOY said:

He simply doesn’t trust most of those players sitting behind him.

There was no one on the bench to pick from and the only sub to make was really a forward. Morelos starting working harder the last 15 minutes or he would have been the only one i would have subbed.

[Clemdog 39,389]

I still think he's impacted too much by his own playing career of never wanting to be subbed. 

[STEPPS BOY 73,915]

1 minute ago, Bad Robot said:

There was no one on the bench to pick from and the only sub to make was really a forward. Morelos starting working harder the last 15 minutes or he would have been the only one i would have subbed.

Kent should have been off, a) he was fucked and b) he was pish.

we’ve paid 3 Million for Hagi, 2.5 odds for Itten - can one of them not come on?

[STEPPS BOY 73,915]

40 minutes ago, billscott said:

thats the point the midfield was knackered but who do you bring on we had no midfielders on the bench  

That’s a fair point.

Zungu should be emptied if he’s not playing soon and unfortunately Jack can’t be relied upon as always picking up knocks.

[BlueKnight87 17,286]

I was annoyed at full time the lack of substitutes. 

Calm head now, Badly missed not being able to freshen up our midfield with Jack, Aribo and Zungu missing. 

[Bad Robot 21,150]

Just now, STEPPS BOY said:

Kent should have been off, a) he was fucked and b) he was pish.

we’ve paid 3 Million for Hagi, 2.5 odds for Itten - can one of them not come on?

not for me during that game anyway,I just think the disruption wouldn’t have justified it. I thought Itten about 15 to go but at that point I thought Morelos upped is game.

[STEPPS BOY 73,915]

1 minute ago, Bad Robot said:

not for me during that game anyway,I just think the disruption wouldn’t have justified it. I thought Itten about 15 to go but at that point I thought Morelos upped is game.

Morelos was the best player on pitch tonight, closely followed by Roofe and Kamara.

[Bad Robot 21,150]

Just now, STEPPS BOY said:

Morelos was the best player on pitch tonight, closely followed by Roofe and Kamara.

Roofe was the best player IMO and we all see games differently. I wasn’t impressed by Morelos until the last 15 minutes. Roofe was really involved out of possession and I thought Morelos was second to the ball most of the game. Kamara was great as well and lost a wee bit of his edge understandably due to the booking. I thought Tav wasn’t on his game but I’m proud of everyone of those players tonight. A tough shift against a really good team who we matched.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Ah but how many would be moaning if we brought on subs and then lost 2 goals. 
 

“shouldn’t have changed it”

 

imo

[GOAT 30,449]

1 hour ago, JamieD said:

Don’t get me wrong, Gerrard deserves a lot of credit just for the fact that here we are raging that we haven’t got two wins against a team who spent 100 million euros this season, when we feel we deserve them, and I would have bitten your arm off for two points from Benfica when the draw came out, but we are allowed FIVE subs in this tournament. Five. That is half the outfield team who can be replaced with fresh players, for a team absolutely dominating with a pressing game. What can possibly explain Gerrard’s reluctance to use them? Will he learn from this?

Not making subs was 100% the correct decision.  

[Cedrick 8,048]

Couldn’t think of an option on the bench that would influence the game during tonight’s game , barker to run maybe but who you taking off 

[bluenoz 30,836]

1 hour ago, Cedrick said:

Couldn’t think of an option on the bench that would influence the game during tonight’s game , barker to run maybe but who you taking off 

Kent wasn't at the races tonight mate. If a sub was to be made, it should have been him. That's why I was thinking of Hagi (forgot about Barker)but I was never fussed about making changes either.

[JCDBigBear 10,825]

2 hours ago, psb07158 said:

If we were just going to sit so deep we should have at least brought Helander on and gone 5 at the back

This is the kind of shite he pulled in his first season managing us, the bench had 2 players we have spent the best part of £7m on 

I wouldn't have gone to 5 at the back.  I felt we pulled too deep and let their midfield start to really command us.  I'd have taken Roofe off and brought on Itten and maybe Kent for another midfielder.   That would have needed to be Hagi or Barjonas with no Jack or Aribo available.    Not at the same point in the game though as I'd stagger the interruptions to try to take the sting out of Benfica's game.

[Valance1690 3,826]

They had us penned in the last 20 minutes or so & we dropped deeper and deeper, only sub we could've realistically made was a defensive one (Bassey or Helander) instead of an attacker and just tried to defend it out, he trusted the guys on the park and that's fair enough

Risk is that you change it then a player comes on who isn't up to the match speed and causes a goal

Subs when we're winning I don't usually moan about, it was last season when we were drawing/losing and we needed a change it would come too late

 

[King Jela 20,361]

With Aribo, Jack and Zungu out the options were a bit thin and the midfield was, for me, clearly where we were needing a change. 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

8 hours ago, JamieD said:

Don’t get me wrong, Gerrard deserves a lot of credit just for the fact that here we are raging that we haven’t got two wins against a team who spent 100 million euros this season, when we feel we deserve them, and I would have bitten your arm off for two points from Benfica when the draw came out, but we are allowed FIVE subs in this tournament. Five. That is half the outfield team who can be replaced with fresh players, for a team absolutely dominating with a pressing game. What can possibly explain Gerrard’s reluctance to use them? Will he learn from this?

Last game against Benfica he was criticised for making subs, changing the flow of the game and losing two late goals, this time chose not to change flow of game with subs, loses two Late goals, and is criticised - man can’t win! 
he’s doing fine and these things happen - imagine being gutted with two draws against Benfica! They are a real quality side and we matched them in every way. 

[British_Empire 9,648]

15 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

Last game against Benfica he was criticised for making subs, changing the flow of the game and losing two late goals, this time chose not to change flow of game with subs, loses two Late goals, and is criticised - man can’t win! 
he’s doing fine and these things happen - imagine being gutted with two draws against Benfica! They are a real quality side and we matched them in every way. 

I've literally never heard that.

Unless you are conflating people criticising Arfield's sloppiness giving the ball away for their late equaliser, as criticising his substitutions by some sort of proxy as he came on as a substitute. 

I don't think anyone had a problem with Arfield being brought on, they were unhappy with the error which is a bit different. The substitution wasn't wrong tactically, Gerrard can't be blamed for that (Arfield, a trusted player, giving the ball away).

[.Williamson. 82,208]

It’s always been a problem of his not using or making subs when they’re available 

Seems to have this strange belief you can’t make a substitution until the 60th minute aswell

[Laudrup1690 1,064]

12 hours ago, JamieD said:

Don’t get me wrong, Gerrard deserves a lot of credit just for the fact that here we are raging that we haven’t got two wins against a team who spent 100 million euros this season, when we feel we deserve them, and I would have bitten your arm off for two points from Benfica when the draw came out, but we are allowed FIVE subs in this tournament. Five. That is half the outfield team who can be replaced with fresh players, for a team absolutely dominating with a pressing game. What can possibly explain Gerrard’s reluctance to use them? Will he learn from this?

I can understand why we didn’t last night tbh because from the bench I can’t really see anyone who would of made a difference.

I honestly don’t think say bringing on helander or barker etc would of changed the result