Our full backs aren't good enough and are putting our keeper under pressure

[Ryju84 3,170]

10 hours ago, docspiderman said:

I really laugh at people complaining about Wes not coming off his line for crosses and corners. Our last keeper who came off his line regularly was Chris Woods; Goram and Klos very very rarely come out for cross balls not just because of lack of height but that is the way they and keepers since then are coached.

The guy beside me said the exact same thing. 

I was going to start a new topic, because I really couldn't remember, and wanted to see if others on here agreed that it was Woods. 

 

[onefootwillie 1,518]

3 hours ago, Ryju84 said:

The guy beside me said the exact same thing. 

I was going to start a new topic, because I really couldn't remember, and wanted to see if others on here agreed that it was Woods. 

 

Woods would be the last keeper we had that came regularly for crosses

[ianb1547 3,767]

I think Wes is a good keeper, but they scored with a low header from 3 yards out and 1 yard inside the far post. That hardly qualifies for the keeper having to 'come off his line'.

3 yards out is the keepers ball every time...or ought to be.

[TMB 14,167]

A lot of you on here are calling for two new full-backs and a better Keeper but where's the money coming from?  

We've apparently put a price tag of £1.5m on Tavernier.  I would also expect us to get at least £1m for Foderingham.  If those guys are worth millions how much would the better ones cost?

If we had to go the entire season with the defence we had yesterday I'm certain we would finish the season with one of the best defensive records.  Where we come up short is in attack.  We need a wide creative player and a goal scorer.  If there's money to be spent I'd rather it was on attackers.  I would hope we'll be on the front foot most of the time anyway.  

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

Agree with the general theme of the thread however probably worth noting that Motherwell throughout their Betfred Cup campaign were wipping balls into the box throughout games. We wont face a side doing that as much again this season nor with somebody with as good a delivery as Chris Cadden.

[geronimoo 1,474]

I would say Wes Foderingham is an above average keeper, if our full-backs ever learn how to cross a ball they won't look at rank as they do.

 

 

[With Heart and Hand 8,949]

He's a great shot stopper but is lacking in other aspects of his game

I have little confidence when he's playing the ball out from his box 

Great shot stopper and an above average overall goalie but there's room for improvement 

[tannerall 25,935]

Never had this problem in the days when Butcher, Gough led the line, which brings me to the point. It's not the LB and RB problem, it all comes down to a decent goalkeeper and a strong centre back pairing.

It's up to a good centre back to marshall the defence along with his central partner and have a good understanding with the goalie. And then that allows the left and right back to do their job too. Doesn't work as well when a left back or right back is captain unless they are a very strong personality (like Greig). 

I've said it so many times on here, we start building a team with a strong spine and structure through the goalkeeper, centre half, strong midfielder and a goal scoring centre forward, then we add the fancy bits.

And a captain should always lead from the back in my opinion too allowing others the confidence to play in front. 

So there you have my whole football philosophy, incidentally a policy also utilised and endorsed by perhaps the greatest British manager of all time who took a tiny club from Nottingham to two European Cup successes after almost doing the same with a small club from Derby, a manager who realised that football is a simple game and it's mostly about skill allied with strength of character. and realised the spine and a strong centre back is the most crucial part of a strong, confident team.  

Time to make Alves captain ? 

 

 

[KeyserSoze 14,595]

You look at our goals against recently. The majority are down our left, either swung in from or in behind the LB position 

don't understand why this position has not been strengthened. 

[Leeds_Bear 8,111]

5 hours ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

A lot of you on here are calling for two new full-backs and a better Keeper but where's the money coming from?  

We've apparently put a price tag of £1.5m on Tavernier.  I would also expect us to get at least £1m for Foderingham.  If those guys are worth millions how much would the better ones cost?

If we had to go the entire season with the defence we had yesterday I'm certain we would finish the season with one of the best defensive records.  Where we come up short is in attack.  We need a wide creative player and a goal scorer.  If there's money to be spent I'd rather it was on attackers.  I would hope we'll be on the front foot most of the time anyway.  

If Waghorn with one year on his contract is going for £1m - Wes is worth at a minimum £5m

[the_r_sole 366]

35 minutes ago, tannerall said:

Never had this problem in the days when Butcher, Gough led the line, which brings me to the point. It's not the LB and RB problem, it all comes down to a decent goalkeeper and a strong centre back pairing.

It's up to a good centre back to marshall the defence along with his central partner and have a good understanding with the goalie. And then that allows the left and right back to do their job too. Doesn't work as well when a left back or right back is captain unless they are a very strong personality (like Greig). 

I've said it so many times on here, we start building a team with a strong spine and structure through the goalkeeper, centre half, strong midfielder and a goal scoring centre forward, then we add the fancy bits.

And a captain should always lead from the back in my opinion too allowing others the confidence to play in front. 

So there you have my whole football philosophy, incidentally a policy also utilised and endorsed by perhaps the greatest British manager of all time who took a tiny club from Nottingham to two European Cup successes after almost doing the same with a small club from Derby, a manager who realised that football is a simple game and it's mostly about skill allied with strength of character. and realised the spine and a strong centre back is the most crucial part of a strong, confident team.  

Time to make Alves captain ? 

 

 

Thing is, the role of full backs has changed a bit since those days with a lot more emphasis on overlapping runs, pace and attacking ability, a centre half should be marshalling the line captain or not, the problem is, you can't give instructions to a player who's 30 yards behind the ball which seems to happen very often with us.

If Wallace and Tav don't want to defend or have poor decision making on when to go forward and when to hold back it's always going to be a problem, but an even bigger problem is that they don't stop crosses coming in effectively. Seems like when we're attacking the ball from out wide crosses are blocked by the first man more often than not, but we let the opposition get balls into the box and even the best centre back pair and goalkeeper can be caught out with guys running onto a cross

[Brubear 2,927]

10 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

well that and the fact that our keepers bang average. 

 

strong midfield though.....

Agreed. Always difficult to know if keeper lacks confidence in the defence or the other way round 

[tannerall 25,935]

22 minutes ago, the_r_sole said:

Thing is, the role of full backs has changed a bit since those days with a lot more emphasis on overlapping runs, pace and attacking ability, a centre half should be marshalling the line captain or not, the problem is, you can't give instructions to a player who's 30 yards behind the ball which seems to happen very often with us.

If Wallace and Tav don't want to defend or have poor decision making on when to go forward and when to hold back it's always going to be a problem, but an even bigger problem is that they don't stop crosses coming in effectively. Seems like when we're attacking the ball from out wide crosses are blocked by the first man more often than not, but we let the opposition get balls into the box and even the best centre back pair and goalkeeper can be caught out with guys running onto a cross

You telling me players in the days of Greig and Jardine weren't in the habit of making runs from defence, playing one two's with the midfield and the wingers ?

Shame you never saw Sandy Jardine's goal in the famous game where Cooper scored against cellic, was right up there with the best goals scored by a Rangers player.

This one was special too.

 

 

 

[Smell the hotdog 4,016]

We've been hopeless at stopping balls come into our box even under Walter 2nd time round. 

Whittaker was fuckin atrocious at stopping crosses coming in the box. I think the switch to 442 along with Cardoso and Alves should help but still need upgrades.

[the_r_sole 366]

19 minutes ago, tannerall said:

You telling me players in the days of Greig and Jardine weren't in the habit of making runs from defence, playing one two's with the midfield and the wingers ?

Shame you never saw Sandy Jardine's goal in the famous game where Cooper scored against cellic, was right up there with the best goals scored by a Rangers player.

This one was special too.

 

 

 

no, i didn't say that, I said there is much more emphasis on the attacking ability and less on defensive positioning and understanding, Jardine knew how to play the position and chose when to go forward, and just as important, knew when he had to be in position. Wallace and Tav are hardly in the same class as these guys - are you telling me Jardine was was only good because he had a decent keeper and centre backs?

[jbm26896 995]

Our full backs are fine - it's the system we play 

more concerned with our lack of fire power at the moment 

[The Blue Ranger 21]

So the system is allowing crosses to come into the box? I think it's more likely to do with both Wallace and Tavernier being pish defenders.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

10 minutes ago, The Blue Ranger said:

So the system is allowing crosses to come into the box? I think it's more likely to do with both Wallace and Tavernier being pish defenders.

And the keeper's lack of competence. 

[plumbGER 24,518]

34 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

And the keeper's lack of competence. 

How is the keeper supposed to stop crosses coming into the box?

[Billythebear77 10,386]

Fods the best keeper in the league 

[Boaby Bear 411]

Who do we go for at full back.

I'm at a loss as to who would be a good fit for us. 

[Rambo1872 4,065]

On 06/08/2017 at 6:44 PM, Smile said:

Jack had a poor game been good in the Friendlies but quiet today.

Hopefully first match nerves. We will find out wed/sat. 

[wullyRFC 5,230]

15 hours ago, Leeds_Bear said:

If Waghorn with one year on his contract is going for £1m - Wes is worth at a minimum £5m

A few month ago someone said McKay was worth £3M. Wasn't you was it?

[Leeds_Bear 8,111]

13 minutes ago, wullyRFC said:

A few month ago someone said McKay was worth £3M. Wasn't you was it?

Probably - I think we drastically under value our players when dealing with the English market. It's incredibly inflated. 

What would you have sold McKay for - taking into account Waghorn and Garner both went for £1m?

[wullyRFC 5,230]

4 minutes ago, Leeds_Bear said:

Probably - I think we drastically under value our players when dealing with the English market. It's incredibly inflated. 

What would you have sold McKay for - taking into account Waghorn and Garner both went for £1m?

I said £500k for Mckay. Getting more than £200k for Waghorn and £500k for Garner was some piece of business and down to clubs down south overpaying.