Do we need a system change?

[6superbarry6 14,232]

After yet again losing the midfield battle is it time to sacrifice our no 10 for a sitter in front of the back 4? even against the dross in the league teams are waltzing right through our midfield, the time and space O Reilly and McGregor we’re getting on the edge of our box was a shambles, I’d be looking at playing Sterling in front of the back 4 and removing Lawrence/Cantwell from the team we get nowhere near enough from either of them anyway. 

[The Godfather 72,437]

3 minutes ago, 6superbarry6 said:

After yet again losing the midfield battle is it time to sacrifice our no 10 for a sitter in front of the back 4? even against the dross in the league teams are waltzing right through our midfield, the time and space O Reilly and McGregor we’re getting on the edge of our box was a shambles, I’d be looking at playing Sterling in front of the back 4 and removing Lawrence/Cantwell from the team we get nowhere near enough from either of them anyway. 

We need better players

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

Feels like we’ve been watching pretty much the same system under the last 4 managers and in that time we’ve won 3 trophies so I’d say yes we definitely need a change.

[WilliamMunny 3,257]

Massive rebuild required

Proper leaders need brought in

Serial losers need to go

[The Godfather 72,437]

Just now, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Feels like we’ve been watching pretty much the same system under the last 4 managers and in that time we’ve won 3 trophies so I’d say yes we definitely need a change.

Because it was so successful with Gerrard towards the later stages it's just stayed as is. Barasic and Tav are too old and slow to play it and have been for 2 seasons now. 

They have worked us out to the point they can play weakened teams and play well below par and still guaranteed to beat us. 

We need a total rethink and the squad needs ripped up. The profile cannot be allowed ot be the likes of Dessers, Matondo and Lammers again or we are fucked. Every season it seems to be said but this summer is massive.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,117]

If we are playing a 4231 then the front 4 need to be on it, causing problems, and keeping the ball in the opposition half. If not, they're effectively out the game as they don't have defensive mindsets and our midfield is outnumbered by opposition midfield 3 plus against celtic full backs pushing forward.

So ultimately if our front 4 are good, athletic, pacy, clinical and effective there's nothing wrong with 4231. So predictable that wasn't the case yesterday and won't be the case in the cup final if its the same players available.

Imo as it stands we need a midfield 3 of Sterling Diamonde and Raskin / Jack for the final. We build the team around a midfield 3 or 4 including Sterling in there.

Next season there needs to be players capable of different formations.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

3 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

We need better players

Agreed but we have far better players than the dross like Ross County and Motherwell who are also able to stroll through our midfield with ease, I think Sterling in front of the back 4 would solve this.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

2 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

If we are playing a 4231 then the front 4 need to be on it, causing problems, and keeping the ball in the opposition half. If not, they're effectively out the game as they don't have defensive mindsets and our midfield is outnumbered by opposition midfield 3 plus against celtic full backs pushing forward.

So ultimately if our front 4 are good, athletic, pacy, clinical and effective there's nothing wrong with 4231. So predictably that wasn't the case yesterday and won't be the case in the cup final if its the same players available.

Imo as it stands we need a midfield 3 of Sterling Diamonde and Raskin / Jack for the final. We build the team around a midfield 3 or 4 including Sterling in there.

Has to be those 3 for the final we can’t have a Lawrence or Cantwell in there.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

4 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

Because it was so successful with Gerrard towards the later stages it's just stayed as is. Barasic and Tav are too old and slow to play it and have been for 2 seasons now. 

They have worked us out to the point they can play weakened teams and play well below par and still guaranteed to beat us. 

We need a total rethink and the squad needs ripped up. The profile cannot be allowed ot be the likes of Dessers, Matondo and Lammers again or we are fucked. Every season it seems to be said but this summer is massive.

We need to inject some pace and energy into the side, the difference when Yilmaz came on for Barisic was night and day, Barisic Lundstram and Lawrence jogging about was infuriating. 

[.Williamson. 83,312]

Need better players but I would probably be using the last two league games to test different systems out for the final

They’re both dead rubbers so may aswell just use them as practice type games 

[The Godfather 72,437]

Just now, 6superbarry6 said:

Agreed but we have far better players than the dross like Ross County and Motherwell who are also able to stroll through our midfield with ease, I think Sterling in front of the back 4 would solve this.

We do but it's the same players who fucked it previously. Lundstrum has been jogging about doing the bare minimum for months, he's a disgrace for the money he is on. 

Diomande is too clumsy and raw so when you put they two together it's a disaster really. We need another 2 centre midfielders to come in who can dictate the play and create. Need to get shot of Lundstram, Jack, Raskin, Dowell and get the middle sorted once and for all.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

1 minute ago, .Williamson. said:

Need better players but I would probably be using the last two league games to test different systems out for the final

They’re both dead rubbers so may aswell just use them as practice type games 

I don’t see how we can go into the final with the same system and players and expect anything other than a defeat.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

7 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

If we are playing a 4231 then the front 4 need to be on it, causing problems, and keeping the ball in the opposition half. If not, they're effectively out the game as they don't have defensive mindsets and our midfield is outnumbered by opposition midfield 3 plus against celtic full backs pushing forward.

So ultimately if our front 4 are good, athletic, pacy, clinical and effective there's nothing wrong with 4231. So predictable that wasn't the case yesterday and won't be the case in the cup final if its the same players available.

Imo as it stands we need a midfield 3 of Sterling Diamonde and Raskin / Jack for the final. We build the team around a midfield 3 or 4 including Sterling in there.

Next season there needs to be players capable of different formations.

There’s actually very little of this in our squad in general, not just at the front and it’s frightening.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

1 minute ago, 6superbarry6 said:

I don’t see how we can go into the final with the same system and players and expect anything other than a defeat.

I feel the same tbh. Some of these players have slipped back into the mentality pre-Gerrard when we were beat before a ball is kicked.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

2 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

We do but it's the same players who fucked it previously. Lundstrum has been jogging about doing the bare minimum for months, he's a disgrace for the money he is on. 

Diomande is too clumsy and raw so when you put they two together it's a disaster really. We need another 2 centre midfielders to come in who can dictate the play and create. Need to get shot of Lundstram, Jack, Raskin, Dowell and get the middle sorted once and for all.

Need to give Raskin Lundstram jersey until end of season hopefully the last we see of him 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 54,117]

1 minute ago, 6superbarry6 said:

Has to be those 3 for the final we can’t have a Lawrence or Cantwell in there.

Cantwell should be a good shout from the bench. Needs to stfu on his social media in the run up.  Lawrence is done, he's not got the athleticism for this fixture.  Lundstram should never wear the jersey again.

So yep Sterling plus 2 if not 3 in midfield from the 3 others I mentioned.

I'd actually be inclined to go 442 if we've Sima back and pace up front. Clement won't though, he'll shuffle the pack but still play 4231.

[The Godfather 72,437]

1 minute ago, 6superbarry6 said:

Need to give Raskin Lundstram jersey until end of season hopefully the last we see of him 

Raskin is another waster. He's unfit, lazy and on big wages.

He's been here a while now and never the managers have all binned him to the bench.

Needs punted 

[6superbarry6 14,232]

5 minutes ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

I feel the same tbh. Some of these players have slipped back into the mentality pre-Gerrard when we were beat before a ball is kicked.

So much of it stemmed from Lundstram and Barisic, just replacing they 2 with Raskin and Yilmaz would make a big difference I think, or even Sterling in the middle if Sima is back. 

[RossS1873 1,685]

I think we need a mentality change more than anything. From the top down. Too much back patting over mediocrity. The other mob had 1 bad season and burned the place to the ground to get success. We've kept the same losers for season after season.

[6superbarry6 14,232]

Just now, The Godfather said:

Raskin is another waster. He's unfit, lazy and on big wages.

He's been here a while now and never the managers have all binned him to the bench.

Needs punted 

He had potential pre injury I’d like see him fully fit with decent pre season in him before writing him off, Martinez said he close to a Belgium call up so he must have more ability than he’s shown here so far.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,540]

3 minutes ago, 6superbarry6 said:

So of it stemmed from Lundstram and Barisic, just replacing they 2 with Raskin and Yilmaz would make a big difference I think, or even Sterling in the middle if Sima is back. 

Barisic and Lundstram can’t play for us again, at least they shouldn’t. I’d put Sterling at RB and let him deal with Maeda but Clement won’t drop Tav so that’s a non starter.

[esquire8 43,269]

It's the players. Not the system.

You have 2 holding midfielders and an attacking midfielder who presses.

Yesterday was another prime example of 2 players not capable of doing that in Lundstram and Lawrence. Lundstram was sitting on the centre backs toes again and Lawrence couldn't run. Players need to be dynamic and make up the yards quickly. 

Could change the system to suit the players but right now I have no confidence in any of the players bar 2 or 3. 

[DeanMK 4,732]

We need good players. Simple as that. 

[6superbarry6 14,232]

1 minute ago, LaudrupsPatrickBoots said:

Barisic and Lundstram can’t play for us again, at least they shouldn’t. I’d put Sterling at RB and let him deal with Maeda but Clement won’t drop Tav so that’s a non starter.

Think we need Sterlings energy in the middle tbh, hopefully there’s truth in the Ben Johnson rumours and we can get that done, can’t see him coming here as a back up 

[OrangeRab 2,907]

It’s the players.

Our 3/4 younger attacking players are injured. There goes your quality and press.

Part of the squad is dead on its feet and can’t track a basic runner never mind press. Like Tav and Lundstram.

And the other half are guys like Lawrence who I think I’d have a genuine shot at beating in a foot race. 

This squad is so far from the athleticism we had under Gerrard when we won 55.