Tav

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, Inigo said:

Yeah, but when you're analysing his performance in a single match, which is what the thread was started for, it's unreasonable if all you do is greet about the bad bits. Gives a completely misleading impression if that's what we do. Which I think is becoming a habit in the case of Tav.

We have this debate after every game and while the game is happening, for one reason. 

[Tomatasauce 1,253]

15 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

Fuck  off Tav where were you at that goal will be said a lot more though.

3 clean sheets an tonight if it wasn’t for tav’s contribution, we would have lost that game 

Not lost a goal in 3 games an the defence still getting criticised fucking hilarious in here

[BlueMe 25,327]

5 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

Fuck  off Tav where were you at that goal will be said a lot more though.

We'll need to wait and see mate.

That's the problem with a lot of people, their minds are already made up about Tav before a balls been kicked, and absolutely nothing he will ever do will change their opinions.

Better looking at his overall contributions to the game, rather than one side of it.

[Inigo 32,533]

Just now, Courtyard Bear said:

We have this debate after every game and while the game is happening, for one reason. 

Yeah, and every time it's the same. That's why it's never as reasonable as it should be.

Sometimes he doesn't even get that much praise for stuff in an attacking sense from the folk that don't like him. Happened in the Hibs game last year.

Like I say, not a great defender for me, but goes over the score and is unfair alot of the time.

[Roy Hobbs 2,172]

6 minutes ago, OnwardsandUpwards said:

Fuck  off Tav where were you at that goal will be said a lot more though.

3 games in, 3 clean sheets, 1 goal and 2 assists. 

[ZZed 4,510]

I am not the biggest Tav fan but he played ok tonight. He appears to be better because Goldson is better that what we had last year and is shouting at him to get in position. I like the 3 at the back and wondering if when John comes back in to it will Flannagan move in to the Central Defender role (because that is what he looks like to me), that would take a bit of the defensive responsibilities off of John and Tav so they can push forward as that is the main strength of their game.

[Inigo 32,533]

Just now, Roy Hobbs said:

3 games in, 3 clean sheets, 1 goal and 2 assists. 

No too shoddy when you put it like that.

[Laudrup1984 25,100]

The Tav conundrum will never disappear. There are many who want a Flanagan type as a full back, which is fine. Someone who can defend first and foremost. However, with those types they very rarely offer anything going forward. So far Flanagan has shown nothing going forward but I guess that's his style. Also, with those type of defenders you probably aren't ever going to get a top end defender at our level. So effectively if you're happy with a Flanagan type in defence, you know you will get absolutely nothing going forward but equally they will also make mistakes defensively. So when Flanagan plays badly he is worse than a man down. At least when Tav plays poorly defensively though he always offers something offensively.

Over the last 3 games Tav has probably played a part in creating/scoring 10+ chances, many of them pretty clear cut too. Personally I don't think Tav is a great defender but I don't think he is terrible or as bad as some seem to think. All of our players make many mistakes during our games but his certainly seem to be highlighted more than others. Also, I honestly can't think of many top end full backs/wing backs that don't get caught out of position and/or who fail to stop crosses coming in. Week in week out, you'll see Marcelo, Alves, Trippier, Walker, Young get caught out of position and fail to stop crosses coming in. Being a modern day full back is pretty tough especially the way the full back/wing back position has evolved. Some may not like it which is completely fine. However, the thought of having two Flanagan types as our full backs as an alternative to Tav, IMO is a far worse scenario. And it also denies us our clearest creative player.

A major part of Tav's attribute is bombing forward from deep, where there is space, allowing him to create chances and get crosses in. It's therefore up to Gerrard to get the best out of the team and utilise the strengths Tav clearly possesses. If we have two of Jack, Coulibaly, McCrorie, Ejaria in the middle playing then if Tav goes forward the obvious solution is for one of them to sit in and cover. If Candieas is playing and Tav goes he can cover and you also have the option of the right centre half to cover. Having players to cover Tav going forward however does not mean we are building our team around Tav. It's just common sense. If you have two central midfielders and one goes, then naturally the other should sit. And if Tav is making surging run after surging run he will need help. Just like Morelos needs support up top. He brings so much to the team but with his style of play he also needs help from his team mates.

I think we are very much a work in progress and it will be interesting see how we finally set up.

[Inigo 32,533]

2 minutes ago, Laudrup1984 said:

The Tav conundrum will never disappear. There are many who want a Flanagan type as a full back, which is fine. Someone who can defend first and foremost. However, with those types they very rarely offer anything going forward. So far Flanagan has shown nothing going forward but I guess that's his style. Also, with those type of defenders you probably aren't ever going to get a top end defender at our level. So effectively if you're happy with a Flanagan type in defence, you know you will get absolutely nothing going forward but equally they will also make mistakes defensively. So when Flanagan plays badly he is worse than a man down. At least when Tav plays poorly defensively though he always offers something offensively.

Over the last 3 games Tav has probably played a part in creating/scoring 10+ chances, many of them pretty clear cut too. Personally I don't think Tav is a great defender but I don't think he is terrible or as bad as some seem to think. All of our players make many mistakes during our games but his certainly seem to be highlighted more than others. Also, I honestly can't think of many top end full backs/wing backs that don't get caught out of position and/or who fail to stop crosses coming in. Week in week out, you'll see Marcelo, Alves, Trippier, Walker, Young get caught out of position and fail to stop crosses coming in. Being a modern day full back is pretty tough especially the way the full back/wing back position has evolved. Some may not like it which is completely fine. However, the thought of having two Flanagan types as our full backs as an alternative to Tav, IMO is a far worse scenario. And it also denies us our clearest creative player.

A major part of Tav's attribute is bombing forward from deep, where there is space, allowing him to create chances and get crosses in. It's therefore up to Gerrard to get the best out of the team and utilise the strengths Tav clearly possesses. If we have two of Jack, Coulibaly, McCrorie, Ejaria in the middle playing then if Tav goes forward the obvious solution is for one of them to sit in and cover. If Candieas is playing and Tav goes he can cover and you also have the option of the right centre half to cover. Having players to cover Tav going forward however does not mean we are building our team around Tav. It's just common sense. If you have two central midfielders and one goes, then naturally the other should sit. And if Tav is making surging run after surging run he will need help. Just like Morelos needs support up top. He brings so much to the team but with his style of play he also needs help from his team mates.

I think we are very much a work in progress and it will be interesting see how we finally set up.

Good summation.

[Prso's headband 35,459]

I quite like him. Every defender makes mistakes, they always will. He’ll never stop every cross people need to get over that. 

He offers so much in an attacking sense, whereas Flanagan offers fuck all going forward and like all defenders will still have a mistake in him. I don’t mind the balance on the wings at the moment I think it works 

[PromDeAnglais 5,471]

41 minutes ago, FSM said:

Starting a thread to specifically slag off our captain after an away victory and another clean sheet in Europe. Poor show. Poor show.

I'll buy you a pint down ashton lane to apologise personally. But aye. He can't defend for fuck.

[gsa 3,906]

I hate Tav. 

We'd have a much better season if we sold him and Windass and used the money on a centre midfielder/forward or both. 

[Sket 13,610]

He will lose us goals all season he's dreadful at the back.

 

Good going forward though.

[rabc10000 5,061]

1 minute ago, gsa said:

I hate Tav. 

We'd have a much better season if we sold him and Windass and used the money on a centre midfielder/forward or both. 

cant stand the guy either but holding off final judgement until i see gerrards final team and preferred formation.  have a feeling we may end up going with 3ATB with john and tavernier as the wing backs and perhaps that could well be the making of him with a lot of the defensive duties taken off him.  still i dont expect much more than what he offers already

[Inigo 32,533]

3 minutes ago, gsa said:

I hate Tav. 

We'd have a much better season if we sold him and Windass and used the money on a centre midfielder/forward or both. 

Aye, you hate everything but.

[gsa 3,906]

1 minute ago, Inigo said:

Aye, you hate everything but.

I love cake.

[TheGovanIniesta 1,000]

26 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

Skinned twice in the first half. Almost cost a goal with a poor clearance as well. 

He's playing out of position so it doesn't really surprise me, I'm just saying he's impressive 1v1 but painful to watch going forward and Tav is the opposite of that

[OrangeRab 2,745]

4 clean sheets so far and he’s had a hand in over half our goals this season. He’s our biggest, actually no he’s our only threat going forward

[Inigo 32,533]

1 minute ago, gsa said:

I love cake.

https://www.cakecentral.com/forum

 

[gsa 3,906]

1 minute ago, Inigo said:

https://www.cakecentral.com/forum

 

Yeah I'm GSA on there as well. There's a cracking thread on buttercream, feel free to get involved. 

[Inigo 32,533]

Just now, gsa said:

Yeah I'm GSA on there as well. There's a cracking thread on buttercream, feel free to get involved. 

Red Velvet Loyal.

[CoatbridgeBear 7,113]

53 minutes ago, Tomatasauce said:

Yous lot are having a tin bath ya fucking bunch of clueless cunts!

stopped a clear goal, all by himself an made one but because he didn’t stop every cross they put in tonight he’s shite?

just can’t help yourselfs every game same wrongyins, we win away in Europe an use are right on here being negative about our captain 

absolute miserable bastards or filth in disguise

 

A lath?

[Ivybank 4,580]

With the young boy from man city on the verge of signing  I'm convinced we will play 3 at the back with tav in midfield

[NeoGeo7 10,520]

Honestly still think Tav is ready made for a wingback role in a 5-3-2 where he isn’t relied upon as much for defensive duties.

We were damn lucky they weren’t able to capitalise on his missed headers, miscontrols, poor clearances. Against better opposition he’d have cost us as many as he created.

[evenstevens 890]

Is Declan John injured? I thought he’d been dropped in favour of Flanagan. ?