Club 1872 Statement

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

1 hour ago, JCDBigBear said:

Surely the £75k is a misprint?

Whether that thread contains any truth to it or not I don't know, but I find it more interesting its been left up for hours on FF considering a post like that would normally be chopped on there within 5 minutes.

[We Will Follow Rangers 12,921]

15 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

Whether that thread contains any truth to it or not I don't know, but I find it more interesting its been left up for hours on FF considering a post like that would normally be chopped on there within 5 minutes.

Have you read sherbrook_loyal's thread? some confused sheep on FF right now.

Dont know what to be told to think.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

i didn't realize the legacy shares wouldn't be owned by the fans buying them. If that's the case then club 1872 are asking for a legacy share donation. Who would be the holder of these shares?

I think it would be easier to raise such a large amount of money if the fans where allowed to own the shares, for their own family legacies. Dave King would get his money back, and If someone wanted out they could put their shares up for sale with-in the group and the proxy would still be club 1872's. 

Once the situation at the club is normalized there'll be no need for extra resources for funding gaps and shares will gain in value. 

if further down the line another investor got into the position of buying the whole shareholding, the fans that have faithfully bought legacy share would at least get something back for their loyalty in building the club up.

If someone was in the position to buy the whole shareholding then club 1872 wouldn't need to fund them with projects money.

It's a great opportunity that Dave King has offered but I think fans need to own the shares and club 1872 need to trust the fans to proxy those shares.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

6 hours ago, geneva_ger said:

And who is this?

It's a queer mandate but DK does not do this without knowing how it will turn out.

I trust the man!

No idea, could be Chris Graham, could be Mark Dingwall. 

Puzzling 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

7 hours ago, LookingForEric said:

Thanks and yes I do realise what buying into C1872 means. Please note though that I am not advocating any particular route here. What I do believe is that more explicit information is required from both C1872 and the football club itself. This thread has already highlighted lots of mixed messages and misunderstandings.

Joining C1872 and making a Legacy Donation puts funds in their coffers allowing them we believe to purchase cheap shares ( in 2021) from Dave King. If they secure all shares as touted C1872 would as of today be the major shareholder. Currently they have no place on the Board and no power, but their position will be strengthened. Any individual making a donation would only have a say in how C1872 business is conducted, not the football club.

Whilst it might be more appealing to invest directly in the football club and feel personally involved you will have minimal influence in decisions and voting. I believe at a corporate shareholding level, voting does not work on a one person one vote basis, it comes down to the value of your holding. C1872 with £millions would have substantially more voting rights than small fry investors. Its why the C1872 (supporters club) exists. Ultimately they want a say in how the Club is run and if King is to be believed, Never Again. In his mind fan interests should be protected hence his proposal.

I know nothing about how C1872 operate or the individuals involved but reading on here, there is a lack of faith in their abilities. As a minimum, with this issue now before us, I would expect them to be promoting themselves to a wider audience unless they think they are confident of raising  £13.5 million from their existing 7000 members - unlikely unless they have a sugar daddy. 

My previous comment remains pertinent. They need to be communicating with our global fan base setting out the details of the deal they are after, what their plans are for raising the cash, how they operate and what it means to us individually so we are all clear on the way forward. 

Is the main Club Board in support of what is being proposed. Wouldn't be a great start if they were not in favour. 

 

 

I get what you are saying but having a 20k strong membership group as majority shareholder in the club is the biggest issue that I see, having a 25% shareholding voting one way or another on important topics at boardroom level is a massive voting bloc, yet this voting bloc is to be decided democratically by 20k people who likely dont have the first idea what the fuck happens when running a football club

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,722]

6 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:

If the average share price is £0.23 over the 3 years then the money required is actually £15.335 millions.   C1872 would require to get 22,752 members to pay the £18.72 per month to reach that total over 3 years.   Let us suppose just for a second, that they actually manage to reach that size of membership, what happens after that if the members don't wish to continue paying that amount on a monthly basis?    Do they lose membership rights to vote etc?

Its 20p per share King has offered it at, though there's ambiguity over whether that price remains on offer after Dec 2021. It seems C1872 are pushing the £500 legacy donation option followed by £10 monthly donation as their main driver to bring in the money they need sooner. 

[LookingForEric 133]

2 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I get what you are saying but having a 20k strong membership group as majority shareholder in the club is the biggest issue that I see, having a 25% shareholding voting one way or another on important topics at boardroom level is a massive voting bloc, yet this voting bloc is to be decided democratically by 20k people who likely dont have the first idea what the fuck happens when running a football club

Morning. I fully understand what you are saying here and it is questions like this and ones from JCDBig Bear and Sweetheart that leads me to be suggesting that clarification is required to help us rank and file supporters understand what is involved and how the future will look.

There are some answers on the C1872 website if you look and I would suggest checking the FAQ's section and also the bit on Legacy. 

As I see it, Dave King has made the decision to sell his shares to C1872 as a collective supporters body wishing to see Rangers fans have a say in the future running of the football club. This offer is not available to individual buyers presumably on the basis that small investors would not have a voice of any significance. True, it could be that those such investors were able to proxy any future votes to C1872 but I guess there is no guarantee that would happen. Hence why King sees the strength in C1872.

C1872's big issue is now to engage with the wider fan base and increase its membership sufficiently to secure legacy donations totalling £13.3m, that's if we buy at 20p by December 2021 - price likely to go up in Year 2 and 3. How are they going to do that and equally important how are they going to address questions and concerns?

They may well be working behind the scenes to get things underway but at present, all I have seen is an updated website with news but unless I had looked, that will only have been targeted at the converted, ie their existing 7000 members and nosey buggers like me. The clock is ticking.

How do they normally communicate, how do they normally recruit new members, are they doing enough? I am in the dark like so many and need somebody to shed the light. You guys have your questions as I do. I could be persuaded to donate my £500 but I want to some oomph from the C1872 Board and show us leadership and direction, come out with a brief capable of reaching the majority and perhaps including a QandA targeted at some of our concerns.

[LookingForEric 133]

3 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I get what you are saying but having a 20k strong membership group as majority shareholder in the club is the biggest issue that I see, having a 25% shareholding voting one way or another on important topics at boardroom level is a massive voting bloc, yet this voting bloc is to be decided democratically by 20k people who likely dont have the first idea what the fuck happens when running a football club

Sorry, failed to answer your question. I believe that any key issues will be put to a vote and majority will rule. From what I see, the C1872 Directors, Laura Fawkes, Euan McFarlane and Joanne Percival will be responsible for overseeing implementation. These guys are elected by the members and serve for three years. I agree that it calls for someone with experience and knowledge to be in these positions but that's where you have to trust the membership. It becomes even more pertinent if the fans ever get a place at the rich man's table (main football club board).

[LookingForEric 133]

Chris Jack's article in the Glasgow Times, if it helps?

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/18915576.amp/?ref=twtrec&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

[Bears r us 30,796]

9 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:

Surely the £75k is a misprint?

It was an eye opener to me, and I would think you must be correct, mind you I never even knew he worked directly for Rangers.  

[Bears r us 30,796]

8 hours ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

"My biggest worry is who is going to lead C1872 if they can pull the purchase off

Paul Murray,Chris Graham,Mark Dingwall?? Would be good choices"

Jesus fucking wept.

Peak follow follow...

Ffs that is unbelievable. 

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

On 01/12/2020 at 17:31, STEPPS BOY said:

Under the circumstances, if Club1872 can come up with that sum of money then surely it would be better going into the club?

The point is, Dave King thinks he has done all he can and wants to spend the rest of his time in South Africa which will mean selling his shares. 

Those shares could go to anyone, who could then do anything. If the shares are in the hands of club 1872, then all the major decisions will be made by fans. 

Don't know about you, but this is something that the majority of fans have wanted for a extremely long time. Now we have a chance and would be idiots not to take this offer up. 

 

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

9 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:

Surely the £75k is a misprint?

If it's true, then those of us who aren't part of club 1872 need to get our finger out and join up NOW.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

4 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

The point is, Dave King thinks he has done all he can and wants to spend the rest of his time in South Africa which will mean selling his shares. 

Those shares could go to anyone, who could then do anything. If the shares are in the hands of club 1872, then all the major decisions will be made by fans. 

Don't know about you, but this is something that the majority of fans have wanted for a extremely long time. Now we have a chance and would be idiots not to take this offer up. 

 

A lot of the fans want more money spent on the team, just because the majority of rank and file fans want something doesnt mean its good for the club

So having the majority rank and file making business decisions is an absolutely frightening thought 

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

9 hours ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

"My biggest worry is who is going to lead C1872 if they can pull the purchase off

Paul Murray,Chris Graham,Mark Dingwall?? Would be good choices"

Jesus fucking wept.

Peak follow follow...

Do they not currently run on a rotating chairman with the way it is structured just now?

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

1 minute ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

A lot of the fans want more money spent on the team, just because the majority of rank and file fans want something doesnt mean its good for the club

So having the majority rank and file making business decisions is an absolutely frightening thought 

I get what you mean, there are a lot of diddys out there. 

Sitting on the outside worrying about it isn't going to help though. It looks like this deal is going through, so it's better to be on the inside than out.

Plus those of us who already own shares from back when CG punted them are the true major shareholders. There's a lot that can be done with that if we joined up to vote against something that clearly doesn't sit right.

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

8 hours ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

Have you read sherbrook_loyal's thread? some confused sheep on FF right now.

Dont know what to be told to think.

I glanced at it yeah.

Certainly seems like an editorial line has been taken over there.

[STEPPS BOY 73,911]

34 minutes ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

The point is, Dave King thinks he has done all he can and wants to spend the rest of his time in South Africa which will mean selling his shares. 

Those shares could go to anyone, who could then do anything. If the shares are in the hands of club 1872, then all the major decisions will be made by fans. 

Don't know about you, but this is something that the majority of fans have wanted for a extremely long time. Now we have a chance and would be idiots not to take this offer up. 

 

How many members do Club 1872 have if as you say a majority of our hundreds of thousands of fans Worldwide  want fan ownership?

[We Will Follow Rangers 12,921]

3 hours ago, Redwhiteandblue said:

The point is, Dave King thinks he has done all he can and wants to spend the rest of his time in South Africa which will mean selling his shares. 

Those shares could go to anyone, who could then do anything. If the shares are in the hands of club 1872, then all the major decisions will be made by fans. 

Don't know about you, but this is something that the majority of fans have wanted for a extremely long time. Now we have a chance and would be idiots not to take this offer up. 

 

The point is the club needs 22m extra cash to get through the next 2 years and Club 1872 has decided to give 13m to Dave King without even asking its membership.

[Bears r us 30,796]

1 hour ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

The point is the club needs 22m extra cash to get through the next 2 years and Club 1872 has decided to give 13m to Dave King without even asking its membership.

Are you a member mate or have you just heard that is the situation, it seems rather strange to me if they have taken that decision at committee level. 

[We Will Follow Rangers 12,921]

1 minute ago, Bears r us said:

Are you a member mate or have you just heard that is the situation, it seems rather strange to me if they have taken that decision at committee level. 

Not a member mate, but they dont communicate with their membership, there's zero transparency or accountability and they certainly didn't poll their members on this.

There's definitely potential for a mass fan organisation to funnel funds into the club but club 1872 in its current format is not it.

[TMB 14,167]

 

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

4 hours ago, STEPPS BOY said:

How many members do Club 1872 have if as you say a majority of our hundreds of thousands of fans Worldwide  want fan ownership?

It was 100% that way when Green done that IPO. But mind they have had definitely 1, maybe more share sales that haven't been open to the public since we were took off the stock market. I remember that the price of the current shares gor diluted because of it, suggesting that those shares came from the 20% (or was it 25%) of shares that weren't made available in the IPO.  

I know where you're going with this, cause I mind trying to get people to do it when we wanted the board out and that is for all of the individual shareholders like myself and many others on here to join together and become the largest shareholder so we could get rid of the board.

If that is where you're going, we couldn't get the fans to join together back when we REALLY needed it, so I doubt we could do it this time when things a pretty rosy the now.

 

Also, I think it was something like 11/12% shares all the single shareholders combined had. And they were diluted by fuck knows what. 

And with Dave King now selling his shares (who have been buying as many shares as they could since their inception) to Club1872 then they will be far the largest shareholder.  Including adding all the individual shareholders added together. 

Which leaves everyone's best chance of getting a say in how the club is run is signing up for club1872.

Need to hand it to them, they done it. And they done it a lot quicker than I think most people expected them to do.

I would like people who have plenty of cash to still be on the board. From memory, it was the champions league money that was making us just break even (which we never done in craig Shyte first season) putting us into administration faster than I think they were planning on doing. It was always going to happen, remember these guys were con men and would have sold off everything they could first before sticking us in admin. 

Luckily we didn't qualify for the Champions league that season or they would've had a much longer time to see what they could sell before they had to put us in administration. 

Only Charles green knows the exact amount of money he made out of, but I think I could safely say it was well over £40m after it was all split up. Think it was £80m that was raised from the IPO. Not bad, 16x their investment.

 

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

1 hour ago, wewillfollowrangers said:

The point is the club needs 22m extra cash to get through the next 2 years and Club 1872 has decided to give 13m to Dave King without even asking its membership.

Surely that is Club1872's problem then? 

Also, I remember from when I was considering joining club1872 when they first started up that their goal (like I mentioned above) was to buy every share that becomes available in the hope of one day being the largest shareholders. 

I'm not part of club1872, but I don't see how or why that would be a problem (not asking the shareholders) as from day one they have said they will buy every available share as and when the become available in the hope of becoming a fan owned club and by pulling this off so quickly (relatively speaking of course) is quite an achievement. 

[TMB 14,167]

I’d like to buy a share in Rangers but not sure I’d do it through Club 1872.