Is Clement getting an easy ride?

[AberfeldyBlue 1,860]

BREAKING>>>>>>>>>>>>Todd Cantwell has asked to leave and will be allowed to

[Sunglasses Ron 2,625]

Likely we have to stick with Clement as we can’t keep sacking managers. This season is shaping up to be a total train wreck. What a situation. Just have to pray that he can get a reaction similar to when he first arrived. 

[rangersross 6,696]

If this doesn’t work out, I think it wouldn’t be the worst thing to get a manager with SPL experience and just build a workmanlike team that plays ugly, effective football to win against dross. We are years away from being able to build a team that can play nice football successfully, but Rodgers has weaknesses I think a manager like McInnes could exploit by working harder, getting a spine of Scottish players, and grinding out wins. 

[SonicWill 1,002]

I totally back Clement because he has pedigree and we can’t keep repeating the cycle of sacking a manager. Sooner or later we need to stick with one and give them the time they need. 
 

That said, the fall off in form at the end of last season was so extreme, and the vibe around the club at the moment is so odd, that it just feels like he lost a large portion of the dressing room. 
 

If that’s the case, all the more reason to back him. But something is definitely not right. 

[Leeds_Bear 8,291]

Feels like the board need to come out and say this is now a project, otherwise it’s chaos.

[The Godfather 75,637]

1 minute ago, SonicWill said:

I totally back Clement because he has pedigree and we can’t keep repeating the cycle of sacking a manager. Sooner or later we need to stick with one and give them the time they need. 
 

That said, the fall off in form at the end of last season was so extreme, and the vibe around the club at the moment is so odd, that it just feels like he lost a large portion of the dressing room. 
 

If that’s the case, all the more reason to back him. But something is definitely not right. 

Captain and vice captain trying to be shifted and Cantwell asking to leave. There will be a core group there which will be fizzing and tbh the dressing room will be a shit show 

[SkylineBlue 25,665]

Just now, The Godfather said:

Captain and vice captain trying to be shifted and Cantwell asking to leave. There will be a core group there which will be fizzing and tbh the dressing room will be a shit show 

Whole thing feels toxic. He needs to clear out the whole squad and bring in his own guys to avoid this getting worse, but we can't afford to do that. This could get more toxic than Beale's tenure.

[SonicWill 1,002]

1 minute ago, SkylineBlue said:

Whole thing feels toxic. He needs to clear out the whole squad and bring in his own guys to avoid this getting worse, but we can't afford to do that. This could get more toxic than Beale's tenure.

Yep. The manager absolutely has to win this battle. 
 

We can’t be beholden to a dressing room of serial losers. 

[The Godfather 75,637]

Just now, SkylineBlue said:

Whole thing feels toxic. He needs to clear out the whole squad and bring in his own guys to avoid this getting worse, but we can't afford to do that. This could get more toxic than Beale's tenure.

That's my thoughts.

We don't have the clout to do as much as is needed in 1 or 2 windows. The damage will be done by then

Its a never ending cycle of pish that comes down to the mismanagement of the board. Since 55 we have nosedived so badly not one person saw this coming.

We are stuck in this cycle for the foreseeable 

[The Godfather 75,637]

1 minute ago, SonicWill said:

Yep. The manager absolutely has to win this battle. 
 

We can’t be beholden to a dressing room of serial losers. 

No manager wins that.

You can't sack every player.

Just the way it goes.

[Ibroxholm 2,312]

It’s a cliche I know but it looks like Clement has lost the dressing room.  It wouldn’t surprise me if he had.   By saying, or at least implying, that we were going to have an extensive rebuild over the summer he has undermined our existing players.  What annoys me most about this is it goes completely against what he did for most of last season.   When he came in, he took an underperforming low confidence team and through encouraging and backing the players, he managed to get us into pole position in the League with a few weeks to go.  Yes, the wheels came of in the last few games but rather than seeking to improve a team which took us 80% to the title  by making focussed additions/changes, he suggested we were going down the rebuild option.  Given our current financial position and our limited ability to identify and attract better players, this was always going to be almost impossible to do with any kind of immediate success.  He really hasn’t done himself any favours.

[DeanMK 5,222]

9 minutes ago, SonicWill said:

Yep. The manager absolutely has to win this battle. 
 

We can’t be beholden to a dressing room of serial losers. 

Feels like we're going to get the clear out we need though. 

My worry is that it may take us more than a summer window to get in what we need to compete.

[SonicWill 1,002]

7 minutes ago, The Godfather said:

No manager wins that.

You can't sack every player.

Just the way it goes.

You don’t have to sack every player. You just need to be given the freedom to get rid of enough “big hitters” who are against you to send a message to the rest of the players that the board will back the manager. 
 

You’re right that sadly football is almost never like that these days, but unless we want to avoid falling into ANOTHER cycle of “bad start to the season - managerial change - improvement in form - failure” then the board need to do things differently and stick with him. 

[Redmond7 1,505]

Surely though with those that have left already then getting rid of the other three, there can't be many left of that toxic group, it then needs a manager to rebuild the atmosphere and cohesion. It's utterly ridiculous and baffling that we're even in this situation. 

[Badger 9,085]

This probably is going to go badly for Clement, and it may be the next manager that benefits from the shambles of now but.... what is happening has to happen.

This era has to end.

[DrLaudrup 5,054]

We can't keep sacking managers. Clement has pedigree and has to be supported. People are talking about toxicity but he is doing exactly what many of us have been saying do for seasons; clearing out the underachievers. Tav can go, Goldson out, Cantwell, Lammers etc. If those dressing room influencers are making it toxic then better they go. He is not standing for fools. The issue here is due to gross mismanagement over the last few years. The squad and wage bill is huge. It has to come down. The key to the season is going to be in the next 10 days. If we get these players out we could have > 10m to reinvest. We are a few signings away from being much better but we cant just replace mediocrity with the same. We simply have to be fitter and better. 

[chris182 6,520]

38 minutes ago, SkylineBlue said:

Whole thing feels toxic. He needs to clear out the whole squad and bring in his own guys to avoid this getting worse, but we can't afford to do that. This could get more toxic than Beale's tenure.

Needs to happen 

[BlueAvenger 10,748]

What about the synergy !! 

[graeme_4 37,421]

I think we need bodies in and stick with him, but losing faith in someone I initially thought of as a similar type to Walter Smith rapidly.

Can only hope there’s significant transfer movement in and out over the next week. 

[King Jela 21,575]

Needs his own players in to make his system work, that much is clear. 

So why is he persisting with the same system when it's clearly not working? 

I want him to be backed, but I also want him to show his adaptability when the cards he's been dealt are shite. 

We're so easy to play through.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,316]

Everything feels totally chaotic. There's no improvement on anything he's touched.

Individual performances, collective performance, style of play, squad qualities. I don't even really care about results if there's growth in the others areas but there's not and the results are shite too.

We believed in him when he came in. Maybe the players did too. Something changed early spring and it's not near been resolved in house.

Right now we're in Beale territory when he was days before Matchday 1 and a Killie away defeat. Even worse vibes right now.

The Board absolutely deserve criticism for where we're at, but Clement appears to be having no positive impact at all and hasn't for months.  It can't continue.

[AberfeldyBlue 1,860]

The fact he went into the Man U game with Wright and Dessers is a massive red flag

[King Jela 21,575]

48 minutes ago, Ibroxholm said:

It’s a cliche I know but it looks like Clement has lost the dressing room.  It wouldn’t surprise me if he had.   By saying, or at least implying, that we were going to have an extensive rebuild over the summer he has undermined our existing players.  What annoys me most about this is it goes completely against what he did for most of last season.   When he came in, he took an underperforming low confidence team and through encouraging and backing the players, he managed to get us into pole position in the League with a few weeks to go.  Yes, the wheels came of in the last few games but rather than seeking to improve a team which took us 80% to the title  by making focussed additions/changes, he suggested we were going down the rebuild option.  Given our current financial position and our limited ability to identify and attract better players, this was always going to be almost impossible to do with any kind of immediate success.  He really hasn’t done himself any favours.

That's a very generous summary of what happened. 

The players, same players in particular that have been bottling it for years, bottled it again after he put the trust in them. 

I have my doubts around his commitment right now, but the blame for last season should fall on the 'captain' and Co.

[rossco87 793]

We can’t keep sacking and replacing managers. The lack of a clear plan and system in place is obviously a massive concern, however the pain we are going through with the clear out (and any potential issues that may be causing within the dressing room) is something we as a support have been generally crying out for.

 

The mismanagement of the squad pretty much since 55 has left us in a shit position that we are having to try and have a large turnover of senior players without the budget to easily sign replacements.

 

I am still in the camp that Clement needs the chance to work with “his own” players and implement his style. I hear the concerns about being tactically inflexible and I criticised him in the run in for not trying something different when the wheels came off; however at this point in the rebuild and preseason is there really any point in training and trying something different in a friendly match that he doesn’t intend to use during the season, when we are (hopefully) going to be seeing some fresh faces in the coming days who we have to assume have been recruited to suit Clement’s system / style?

[Bluenose-11 216]

1 hour ago, rangersross said:

If this doesn’t work out, I think it wouldn’t be the worst thing to get a manager with SPL experience and just build a workmanlike team that plays ugly, effective football to win against dross. We are years away from being able to build a team that can play nice football successfully, but Rodgers has weaknesses I think a manager like McInnes could exploit by working harder, getting a spine of Scottish players, and grinding out wins. 

The tarriers went from being a complete basket case of a club when Postecoglou come in to winning a double followed by a treble playing the best football in the league.

It can be done, but the appointment needs to be right and the recruitment needs to firstly be backed and secondly work.

 

Ive zero confidence this board have any sort of plan. A total cluster fuck of a situation