Where Murty record is compared with his predecessors

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Prso's headband said:

Doesn’t matter, it’s the manner we’re losing games in. 

I’d like to see the losses of each manager to who and if it was home and away. 

I’m working this afternoon but will try update the thread with the individual defeats for each one

[Dickie 12,905]

We were improving under all the other managers you can’t say that for Murty. St Brenda’s stats last season probably make him the greatest manager this country has ever seen,so much for figures 

[Rum Ham 2,062]

1 hour ago, Rumblepack said:

to me he still has a chance to get the job tthink most ppl disagree

I agree.

Only because I don't know who else we could get right now that wouldn't be a gamble.

So far the names that have been suggested are Clarke and Martinez, both wouldn't be worth the risk.

Was the same after Pedro left, none of the names filled me with much hope.

[TMB 14,167]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

I posted similar after 20 games comparing Murty's record with Walter Smith. Someone asked this morning where it stands now so I've compiled their records after 29 (how many Murty has managed) and added McLeish, Souness and Advocaat in to see just where he should be performing.

Murty - P29 W19 D2 L8

Souness - P29 W20 D4 L5

Smith - P29 W18 D4 L7

Advocaat - P29 W18 D8 L3

McLeish - P29 W21 D6 L2

(Includes any competitive game they are listed as manager on here)

This is very misleading.  The first 29 games of Smith, Advocaat, and McLeish's probably involved a number of games against quality European opposition.  Murty hasn't managed in Europe but wins against Fraserburgh, Ayr, and Falkirk are being thrown in to this stat.

[TMB 14,167]

18 minutes ago, GT66 said:

I agree.

Only because I don't know who else we could get right now that wouldn't be a gamble.

So far the names that have been suggested are Clarke and Martinez, both wouldn't be worth the risk.

Letting a youth coach manage Rangers with the expectation of winning the league isn't a gamble?  Appointing Clarke, who has probably been the best manager in the country this season, represents more of a risk than Murty? 

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

The others went on to forge sides that won titles and cups.

It's not the snapshot stats that matter.   Is past track record of others really an effective indicator of how a current incumbent will go on to perform over (say) a full season or 2?    

What the board must decide in summer is not the extent to which Murty's stats stack up with the others.   What they must decide on and then act on are 2 related things:

The first is whether the board to a man 100% believes that Murty can produce a title winning side in the next few seasons.      If they are genuinely convinced about this with no caveats and no reservations then Murty will be in charge of the team for next season and the massive gamble will continue that the board has taken of appointing an unproven rookie who is still learning the managerial profession and hoping fingers crossed that he lands the football equivalent of throwing a double 6.

........and.........

If they were not fully convinced that Murty can go on and bring in title 55 in a few seasons, could they even attract and afford to bring in a proper football manager?  One who would be likely to get a whole lot more out of the limited quality squad because his experience and track record indicates that he'd have more managerial nous about how to do that.  And one who would make a lot less errors and react more effectively to turn faltering performance in a game into winning performance because of his managerial style and experience.   Having supposedly done an extensive and detailed recruitment campaign very recently they will have much information about the calibre of prospective managers and have done their sums on what it would be likely to take to recruit a suitable candidate.   By doing sums that would include money that a new manager would be given to bring in the players he felt would be needed to do the job. 

If they can't afford to replace Murty and attract a properly experienced manager then regardless of how long it might take for Murty to learn enough and lose his managerial greenness to become an effective enough manager and produce a title winning side, it is the Murty managerial experience they - and we - will have to endure.  An experience where being competitive means being competitive among the best of the rest for many seasons to come.

The board can't afford - or attract - anyone better than Murty.   As I see it that is the fact of the matter from the last extensive recruitment exercise.  The board looking again in summer are not going to find that financial landscape changed anywhere near enough to get a far better manager.   The board has gambled and thrown the Murty dice and is crossing its fingers to see if he will turn out to be a winner.   It's one very big gamble they have taken on our behalf.   A gamble where the best we can hope for is, and endure, is trying to be the best of the rest.   That's where a board with nowhere near enough investment in Rangers has taken us. 

 

 

[The Dude 20,026]

8 minutes ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

This is very misleading.  The first 29 games of Smith, Advocaat, and McLeish's probably involved a number of games against quality European opposition.  Murty hasn't managed in Europe but wins against Fraserburgh, Ayr, and Falkirk are being thrown in to this stat.

 

Advocaats includes Shelbourne, Beitar, PAOK & Leverkusen but also has Ayr, Airdrie and Alloa

Souness' has Tampere and also has East Fife in there

Walter has Sparta Prague and also has Queens Park, Falkirk and Airdrie

McLeish has Feynoord but also has Ayr, Berwick (twice) and Forfar.

[TMB 14,167]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

 

Advocaats includes Shelbourne, Beitar, PAOK & Leverkusen but also has Ayr, Airdrie and Alloa

Souness' has Tampere and also has East Fife in there

Walter has Sparta Prague and also has Queens Park, Falkirk and Airdrie

McLeish has Feynoord but also has Ayr, Berwick (twice) and Forfar.

So some of the managers were coming up against European opposition, in some instances multiple times, whereas Murty never has.  In terms of Murty we're looking at his games against SPFL and lower league opposition exclusively.  It's not really comparable.

Why not take their first 25 top-tier league games and let's compare those results?

[BlueKnight87 17,389]

1 hour ago, The Dude said:

We did that with Advocaat and after the same number of games (and nearly £30m on transfers) he won fewer games. John Hughes is a seasoned manager ffs, would he fit the bill?

Murty has overseen 5 of our 7 loses at ibrox. 2 of which were to teams in the bottom half of the league. Of the 7 loses Advocatt had 2 where at home. 1 of which was in Europe. We have also got to remember the league was much stronger back then. 

As for the manager that fits the bill. IMO he was in the opposition dugout yesterday. Clarke has turned killie round in 5 months. I don't think it would cost much to get him and he's shown he can get the results in scotland. He's beaten both old firm. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

So some of the managers were coming up against European opposition, in some instances multiple times, whereas Murty never has.  In terms of Murty we're looking at his games against SPFL and lower league opposition exclusively.  It's not really comparable.

Why not take their first 25 top-tier league games and let's compare those results?

The European games haven't tended to be the ones where defeats have come for others either.

Ill have a look at their league ones this afternoon if I get the chance otherwise it'll probably be later tonight

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, BlueKnight87 said:

Murty has overseen 5 of our 7 loses at ibrox. 2 of which were to teams in the bottom half of the league. Of the 7 loses Advocatt had 2 where at home. 1 of which was in Europe. We also go to remember the league was much stronger back then. 

As for the manager that fits the bill. IMO he was in the opposition dugout yesterday. Clarke has turned killie round in 5 months. I don't think it would cost much to get him and he's shown he can get the results in scotland. He's beaten both old firm. 

We were much stronger too - and certainly far stronger relatively than where we are now compared with other top-flight teams. The gap from us to everyone was far greater then than it is now

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,724]

Still think he'll go onto be a good manager one day bit we don't have time to develop someone, we need someone who can come in and take us to the next level immediately 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,724]

56 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

Every one of those managers except from Murty could win the games that actually matter.

 

Since when did Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts away not matter?

[KeyserSoze 14,654]

11 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

Advocaats includes Shelbourne, Beitar, PAOK & Leverkusen but also has Ayr, Airdrie and Alloa

Souness' has Tampere and also has East Fife in there

Walter has Sparta Prague and also has Queens Park, Falkirk and Airdrie

McLeish has Feynoord but also has Ayr, Berwick (twice) and Forfar.

Keep going Dude, you’re doing a good job

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, Goosetav said:

Still think he'll go onto be a good manager one day bit we don't have time to develop someone, we need someone who can come in and take us to the next level immediately 

I don’t disagree with a word of this but I think we’re in a position now where. I simply don’t believe that type of candidate is readily available to us (for a number of reasons) and of the names I have seen bandied about au don’t think they’d be any surer a bet than Murty. 

[Dado'sMulls 2,638]

What's his record like compared to PLG and Warburton, just out of interest?

[Nameless Ghoul 6,132]

Worst home record for 103 years ?

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,778]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Walters also include when he was temporary manager. He was in the dugout as manager for them so I’ve counted them. 

Many was walter temp manager for? 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,724]

29 minutes ago, The Dude said:

I don’t disagree with a word of this but I think we’re in a position now where. I simply don’t believe that type of candidate is readily available to us (for a number of reasons) and of the names I have seen bandied about au don’t think they’d be any surer a bet than Murty. 

Fair point. I think we're in a position to maybe get a slightly higher caliber manager now than we were when Pedro left though.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

38 minutes ago, Goosetav said:

Since when did Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts away not matter?

Ah the like whore is back 

When you've not won against the other dross in the league so no matter what you do you cant win fuck all.

Does that help you?

Beating those teams might mean everything in the moment to us, but when the results no longer matter it doesn't really matter a fuck. If beating those teams is all that matters now then it really does show you we are a shadow of the club we once were.

[The Dude 20,026]

8 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Many was walter temp manager for? 

Six across two spells (two after Souness was appointed but was still under contract in Italy and four after Souness left to join Liverpool)

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,724]

Just now, Jack The Flipper said:

Ah the like whore is back 

When you've not won against the other dross in the league so no matter what you do you cant win fuck all.

Does that help you?

Beating those teams might mean everything in the moment to us, but when the results no longer matter it doesn't really matter a fuck. If beating those teams is all that matters now then it really does show you we are a shadow of the club we once were.

'like whore'  

What you've just said is absolutely nothing like your original post.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

3 minutes ago, Goosetav said:

'like whore'  

What you've just said is absolutely nothing like your original post.

only a mongo wouldn't understand what I'm getting at, oh and...

a mongo doesn't get it, gustav 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,724]

4 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

only a mongo wouldn't understand what I'm getting at, oh and...

a mongo doesn't get it, gustav 

@googzy

[Johnsey 1,540]

3 hours ago, The Dude said:

I posted similar after 20 games comparing Murty's record with Walter Smith. Someone asked this morning where it stands now so I've compiled their records after 29 (how many Murty has managed) and added McLeish, Souness and Advocaat in to see just where he should be performing.

Murty - P29 W19 D2 L8 - PTS 59

Souness - P29 W20 D4 L5 PTS 64

Smith - P29 W18 D4 L7 PTS 58

Advocaat - P29 W18 D8 L3 PTS 62

McLeish - P29 W21 D6 L2 PTS 69

(Includes any competitive game they are listed as manager on here)

Added points total. Murty would be 4th out of the 5, but like someone else said he hasn't had to deal with Europe.