Done with the same old faces

[Southsider 302]

21 minutes ago, Toronto2Glasgow said:

Posted for the second question/answer. He is spot on when talking about the pressures of playing for a big club. There isn’t a single player in this squad who thinks like that. 
This team is more than strong enough to win the league, but mentality wise we are fucking shambles.

Incredible for a 20 year old, and that's why he's such a star.  

Worth remembering that there was a young English AM a few years ago who had an amazing will to win by the name of Gerrard.  Did he manage to instill that in some of the players we have who still can't handle it?

I suspect you've either got it, or you haven't

[NeoGeo7 10,536]

It’s actually quite damning on players who have been here so long that a 20 year old knows more about expectation, responsibility and pressure.

Its a privilege to be a professional football first and foremost but to get the chance to play for big clubs is something that not many will get the opportunity to do so and you have to be prepared to take the good and the bad.

For me I see fear in these players, it’s why you get the shitey sideways passing because they don’t want to take the chance of upsetting the crowd for a misplaced forward pass. 

[Loyal72 11,198]

13 minutes ago, Southsider said:

Incredible for a 20 year old, and that's why he's such a star.  

Worth remembering that there was a young English AM a few years ago who had an amazing will to win by the name of Gerrard.  Did he manage to instill that in some of the players we have who still can't handle it?

I suspect you've either got it, or you haven't

Well for our squad, we already know the answer for many.

[Prso's headband 35,503]

54 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

We simply don’t have the finances for it to happen in one window, which is literally what I said in my post. 

What assets are we selling for close to 30 million, like they did, to fund a rebuild of a squad that’s already bloated with players like Tav, Lawrence, Dessers and Goldson who have years left on the best contracts of their lives, while going up against a side who now have an ingrained culture of winning, which is something we haven’t for over a decade now.

It’s easy to say it’s based on absolutely  nothing when your counter argument is literally nothing more than “aye but Fat Ange did it so why can’t we”

That’s not entirely the case though is it. They’ve spent £6m or more on about 4 players in 20 years. In the past 4 seasons they brought in Furuhashi, Hatate, Abada, Johnstone etc all for less than £5m each and in some cases less than £3m. 
 

In that time we spent £14m on Matondo, Davies, Dessers and Lammers just to name 4. 
 

They shop in similar transfer budget areas as us, even with X amount of millions more in the bank. 
 

We’re the club with the highest wage bill in the country. If reports are correct we have 6 of the 7 highest paid players in Scotland. 
 

But aye, finances. 

[Loyal72 11,198]

17 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

That’s not entirely the case though is it. They’ve spent £6m or more on about 4 players in 20 years. In the past 4 seasons they brought in Furuhashi, Hatate, Abada, Johnstone etc all for less than £5m each and in some cases less than £3m. 
 

In that time we spent £14m on Matondo, Davies, Dessers and Lammers just to name 4. 
 

They shop in similar transfer budget areas as us, even with X amount of millions more in the bank. 
 

We’re the club with the highest wage bill in the country. If reports are correct we have 6 of the 7 highest paid players in Scotland. 
 

But aye, finances. 

This is actually a decent point. 

We've buggered all our money on shite, and for what we pay in wages and fees, definitely hasn't equated to continued success.

Can keep saying gap this, finances that. Point is we actually need to bite the bullet and get rid of the shite, even if it means restructuring payments etc in other ways.

[SIRB_72 4,001]

4 hours ago, OrangeRab said:

The mentality/pressure thing is a bit tedious. It’s definitely a factor but it’s not everything.

If this team was to play Ross County in a pressure free friendly this week I’d fully expect an absolute struggle again. 

It's as tedious as watching the players who all of this clearly effects. It is a major factor if not the defining factor for a good chunk of this squad and there are plenty of trends to show it.

SInce Gerrard joined in 2018 after the winter break when we are a minimum of 2 points behind celtic or better we've had 3 occassions when we've dropped 9+ points to celtic between the first game after the break and the 3rd game of the season against celtic. In 2019 we had a drop of 10, in 2020 a drop of 11 and in 2022 a drop of 9 to celtic.

We obviously never got to play that 3rd game against them in 2020 but in 2019 and 2022 we went onto to lose 2-1 on both occassions. After these two defeats we had a record of 5 wins out of 6 afterwards.

Win% between Janurary and 3rd celtic game - 50% in 2019 and 2022. Win% after the celtic defeat - both 83%.

I'm not going to denegrate our 55 success but I do think less external pressure did help and I think that helped this squad under Beale and now Clement and the numbers show it again.

Beale comes in and we're 9 points behind celtic which carries on until, again, we lose to celtic in the 3rd game of the season after failing to beat them at Ibrox in December and the League Cup final. So we were comfortable with celtic at a distance but as soon as there was a chance to beat them in an important game we dont win.

Which brings me onto results against celtic in general in these specific periods. So after the winter break our record when celtic win the league in all comps is 3 wins in 11. 1 win was that superb cup win under Gio and the other two were when we were 9pts behind celtic in 2019 and 13 points behind last season when celtic were confirmed champions both times. 

Clement comes into similar circumstances with us 7 behind and chips away and chips away celtic who drop more points than they did when Beale was here. We look like a proper team but lose at parkhead. So another big loss to celtic and 8 points behind (and I'm not counting games in hand because as we seen last night it means fuck all).

Ater defeat at parkhead we bounce back and win 9 in a row and get ourselves to the summit and then another collapse where once again we've failed to beat celtic and are on a run of 1 win in 5 - not for the first time.

This is the 4th time in 6 season that we've gone on a disastrous run when we only manage 1 or 2 wins in 5 or 6 matches. So between New Year and 3rd celtic game in 2019 we had a run of 2 wins in 5 and a cup KO to Aberdeen in between, in 2020 it was 1 win in 5 and a cup KO v Hearts but we managed to beat Braga in the EL (funny that) and in 2022 we went on a run of 2 in 6 but managed to knock out Dortmund - again maybe just a coincidence and nothing to do with pressure? Now we're on a similar run at just a different time in the season.

Clement's managerial reign at Rangers has  encapsulated every bit of failure parts of this squad has had under Gerrard, Gio and Beale just with some differences in timing.

The big gap behind and the big run of wins when everyone thinks the league is done. Failing to beat celtic within a 9 point margain after January. A 5/6 league run that we fail to win even a third of those games which means celtic just have to have the most basic level of consistency to cause a major point swing. We're in the middle of a 5 point swing as we speak over the last 3/4 weeks and as I mentioned before history shows it'll probably get worse before it gets better. We've even had the underdog Euro performances. We've already won a cup so I'm assuming we'll cap this run off with defeat to Hearts or lose to celtic in the final and we'll have had the full bingo card either way.

What is the one constant through this? Players. Specifically Tav, Goldson, Barisic and Ryan Jack. Roofe, Wright, Balogun and Lundstram also had a part to play in these seasons and the tradition is now getting passed through to newer members of the squad.

It may be tedious but we're seeing trend and after trend that we've seen every year from this core group. Managers and other players have come and gone and here we are seeing the exact same traits from this team we've been seeing for 5/6 years.

They're not just lacking in quality or tactical implementation or help with sports science they are also scarred and lack belief to go and win things regularly.

[GA1972 9,589]

Guarantee you some of these fuds will be on podcasts in 3/4 years talking about how shite it was playing for us, rewriting history on how good they were and how unnecessarily harsh the fans were on them and their mates 

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,816]

1 hour ago, Loyal72 said:

Makes me want to tan bleach. We've sleepwalked into absolute regression.

Well, everyone close enough has - fans have been saying about the problems for years.

I’m not trying to argue with anybody, we all want what’s best for Rangers because we can see it’s a mess, but there simply isn’t a magic wand that’s going to resolve our issues over the course of one transfer window or one season.

[Loyal72 11,198]

10 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

I’m not trying to argue with anybody, we all want what’s best for Rangers because we can see it’s a mess, but there simply isn’t a magic wand that’s going to resolve our issues over the course of one transfer window or one season.

I already agreed with you earlier btw that it'll take a couple of windows. I'd just like to see a statement of intent going into Summer window, that we do offload some bigger names and take a chance, get the ball rolling on it. 

We can't keep limping on like this.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,816]

1 hour ago, Prso's headband said:

That’s not entirely the case though is it. They’ve spent £6m or more on about 4 players in 20 years. In the past 4 seasons they brought in Furuhashi, Hatate, Abada, Johnstone etc all for less than £5m each and in some cases less than £3m. 
 

In that time we spent £14m on Matondo, Davies, Dessers and Lammers just to name 4. 
 

They shop in similar transfer budget areas as us, even with X amount of millions more in the bank. 
 

We’re the club with the highest wage bill in the country. If reports are correct we have 6 of the 7 highest paid players in Scotland. 
 

But aye, finances. 

Again, I’m not talking about the past, I’m talking about the here and now and what we require this Summer.

Short of a board member ponying up a significant chunk of money from their own pocket where are we getting the money to fund a rebuild of at least 10-12 players at the level we require?

But aye, celtic did it.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,816]

23 minutes ago, Loyal72 said:

I already agreed with you earlier btw that it'll take a couple of windows. I'd just like to see a statement of intent going into Summer window, that we do offload some bigger names and take a chance, get the ball rolling on it. 

We can't keep limping on like this.

We need to sort out the spine first and then fill in the rest.

Was brought up on Rangers Review today they have Hart, Carter-Vickers, McGrgeor & Kyogo and we have Butland, Goldson, Lundstram & Dessers. There’s only one player from those four that you would take from us if given the choice.

[Prso's headband 35,503]

5 minutes ago, BlueSuedeSambas said:

Again, I’m not talking about the past, I’m talking about the here and now and what we require this Summer.

Short of a board member ponying up a significant chunk of money from their own pocket where are we getting the money to fund a rebuild of at least 10-12 players at the level we require this Summer?

All 6 players out of contract on crazy wages will be a good start. 
 

Koppen should know who Clement wants and not, so the feelers should be out there for guys like Matondo, Davies, Dowell etc those on the periphery. Lammers is doing well enough in Holland to gain a transfer fee. 
 

The issue right now is Clement needs some of these guys for the last games of the season. Tav, Goldson, Dessers etc so can’t exactly turn round and say it’s game over. But there is definitely money there and money to be made off this squad. Add in the inevitable sale of Butland and we should have a bit of cash to play with. 
 

If all out of contract players go plus another 4-5 you could genuinely be talking around £20m in wages alone which is absolutely staggering considering the return we’re getting. 
 

There is and should be room for money to be spent in the summer. They can’t seriously hand Beale £15m and leave this manager wae fuck all

[AGM_72 3,644]

Just now, BlueSuedeSambas said:

We need to sort out the spine first and then fill in the rest.

Was brought up on Rangers Review today they have Hart, Carter-Vickers, McGrgeor & Kyogo and we have Butland, Goldson, Lundstram & Dessers. There’s only one player from those four that you would take from us if given the choice.

This has been the case for nearly 3 years. The midfield has been a disgrace since Seville and the fact we sold Bassey and replaced him with Ben Davies, and have managed to bring back Balogun for a second (mostly injury plagued) spell is disgusting negligence. 

[gmcf 34,265]

Team of losers with a loser mentality . 

Time to lose the whole fuckin lot of them . 

[OrangeRab 2,764]

4 hours ago, SIRB_72 said:

It's as tedious as watching the players who all of this clearly effects. It is a major factor if not the defining factor for a good chunk of this squad and there are plenty of trends to show it.

SInce Gerrard joined in 2018 after the winter break when we are a minimum of 2 points behind celtic or better we've had 3 occassions when we've dropped 9+ points to celtic between the first game after the break and the 3rd game of the season against celtic. In 2019 we had a drop of 10, in 2020 a drop of 11 and in 2022 a drop of 9 to celtic.

We obviously never got to play that 3rd game against them in 2020 but in 2019 and 2022 we went onto to lose 2-1 on both occassions. After these two defeats we had a record of 5 wins out of 6 afterwards.

Win% between Janurary and 3rd celtic game - 50% in 2019 and 2022. Win% after the celtic defeat - both 83%.

I'm not going to denegrate our 55 success but I do think less external pressure did help and I think that helped this squad under Beale and now Clement and the numbers show it again.

Beale comes in and we're 9 points behind celtic which carries on until, again, we lose to celtic in the 3rd game of the season after failing to beat them at Ibrox in December and the League Cup final. So we were comfortable with celtic at a distance but as soon as there was a chance to beat them in an important game we dont win.

Which brings me onto results against celtic in general in these specific periods. So after the winter break our record when celtic win the league in all comps is 3 wins in 11. 1 win was that superb cup win under Gio and the other two were when we were 9pts behind celtic in 2019 and 13 points behind last season when celtic were confirmed champions both times. 

Clement comes into similar circumstances with us 7 behind and chips away and chips away celtic who drop more points than they did when Beale was here. We look like a proper team but lose at parkhead. So another big loss to celtic and 8 points behind (and I'm not counting games in hand because as we seen last night it means fuck all).

Ater defeat at parkhead we bounce back and win 9 in a row and get ourselves to the summit and then another collapse where once again we've failed to beat celtic and are on a run of 1 win in 5 - not for the first time.

This is the 4th time in 6 season that we've gone on a disastrous run when we only manage 1 or 2 wins in 5 or 6 matches. So between New Year and 3rd celtic game in 2019 we had a run of 2 wins in 5 and a cup KO to Aberdeen in between, in 2020 it was 1 win in 5 and a cup KO v Hearts but we managed to beat Braga in the EL (funny that) and in 2022 we went on a run of 2 in 6 but managed to knock out Dortmund - again maybe just a coincidence and nothing to do with pressure? Now we're on a similar run at just a different time in the season.

Clement's managerial reign at Rangers has  encapsulated every bit of failure parts of this squad has had under Gerrard, Gio and Beale just with some differences in timing.

The big gap behind and the big run of wins when everyone thinks the league is done. Failing to beat celtic within a 9 point margain after January. A 5/6 league run that we fail to win even a third of those games which means celtic just have to have the most basic level of consistency to cause a major point swing. We're in the middle of a 5 point swing as we speak over the last 3/4 weeks and as I mentioned before history shows it'll probably get worse before it gets better. We've even had the underdog Euro performances. We've already won a cup so I'm assuming we'll cap this run off with defeat to Hearts or lose to celtic in the final and we'll have had the full bingo card either way.

What is the one constant through this? Players. Specifically Tav, Goldson, Barisic and Ryan Jack. Roofe, Wright, Balogun and Lundstram also had a part to play in these seasons and the tradition is now getting passed through to newer members of the squad.

It may be tedious but we're seeing trend and after trend that we've seen every year from this core group. Managers and other players have come and gone and here we are seeing the exact same traits from this team we've been seeing for 5/6 years.

They're not just lacking in quality or tactical implementation or help with sports science they are also scarred and lack belief to go and win things regularly.

 

Not denying it’s a major major factor. But you’re also associating every failure with mentality. And also ignoring any successful periods that don’t align. We’ve basically only got 3 starters left from the Gerrard era. 

For me 3 big factors have been

1) quality

2) squad depth

2) European runs

At times compounded especially in the second half of a season.

For most of our title races we just haven’t had as good players as they have on the whole. They simply have more money than we do.

But 55, their team was shit and had players checked out. We had arguably our best team with players in their prime, had few injuries and honestly just think we had the better team.

Once Postecoglou came in and after January in particular. They just had better players and they definitely had more depth. Their player profile was younger and they were always papped out of Europe before Xmas. 

Whilst we had periods where we could field a really strong starting eleven. But our replacements were garbage.

We dropped points to Motherwell and County in games we were starting players like Itten and Diallo after midweek games to Dortmund.

We caught up to them this season because they haven’t been the same quality on paper (especially without Carter vickers and Hatate). They dropped more points than they usually do.

Whilst Clement got us firing with an intense press that created a load of chances for us. Gave us a load of control and suffocated teams.

But we have a tiny squad of players you’d be happy starting. And our key players are in their 30s and we’ve relied on them to play every single minute because we have no replacements.

Tav and Lundstrum were unanimously our best outfield players other than Sima.

Gone over this ad nauseum. But they’ve played an insane amount of football. And anyone with 2 eyes can see they aren’t the same players they were when we were rag dolling Hearts.

Mentality doesn’t explain why Lundstrum and Tav look like they’re towing a caravan again.

Lundstrum had a spell where he was first to everything. Tav was up and down the line like his old self. Now he barely passes the half way line and looks like he’s running on fumes.

Forgetting general shite play. But have you ever seen us be outrun and outfought so easily as these last few games. Thats mental and physical fatigue.

Then you add in key injuries and our replacements are fucking miles off it.

My guess is Tav, Goldson and Lundstrum will be here next year because they contribute enough when they are fresh. But gone are the days of signings like Lawrence.

Clement will build a young and athletic squad capable of playing with the intensity he wants over a full season. And twice a week if need be with players that won’t get injured. And then he won’t have to run guys like Tav into the ground again. And I’m sure he’ll be looking for a new captain.

[Rangers_no1 32,534]

10 hours ago, DeanMK said:

CM - Diomande. Already good enough for us with a high ceiling. Keep.

CAM - Cantwell. Great player, but needs better around him. Keep.

Diomande based on 1 or 2 games? He was garbage against the scum.

Cantwell is anything but a great player. Most overrated player in Scottish football.

[Rangers_no1 32,534]

6 hours ago, Bronzy said:

1 win in our last 5. 9 scored and 9 conceded. 10 points dropped. 

Similar to the 22/23 collapse under Gio where we dropped 12 points from 15 games. 

Mate we've dropped 10 points in FIVE games and you think that's the same as Gio dropping 2 more in an additional 10 games?

Wit?

[Davy Vandenbroucke 26,185]

4 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Mate we've dropped 10 points in FIVE games and you think that's the same as Gio dropping 2 more in an additional 10 games?

Wit?

I said similar, not the same. It feels worse because of how close together the poor results have been, but the end result is the same.

And it’s not just last season, but every other season preceding it bar 55.

My point is that regardless of who the manager is, this keeps happening.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,932]

46 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Not denying it’s a major major factor. But you’re also associating every failure with mentality. And also ignoring any successful periods that don’t align. We’ve basically only got 3 starters left from the Gerrard era. 

For me 3 big factors have been

1) quality

2) squad depth

2) European runs

At times compounded especially in the second half of a season.

For most of our title races we just haven’t had as good players as they have on the whole. They simply have more money than we do.

But 55, their team was shit and had players checked out. We had arguably our best team with players in their prime, had few injuries and honestly just think we had the better team.

Once Postecoglou came in and after January in particular. They just had better players and they definitely had more depth. Their player profile was younger and they were always papped out of Europe before Xmas. 

Whilst we had periods where we could field a really strong starting eleven. But our replacements were garbage.

We dropped points to Motherwell and County in games we were starting players like Itten and Diallo after midweek games to Dortmund.

We caught up to them this season because they haven’t been the same quality on paper (especially without Carter vickers and Hatate). They dropped more points than they usually do.

Whilst Clement got us firing with an intense press that created a load of chances for us. Gave us a load of control and suffocated teams.

But we have a tiny squad of players you’d be happy starting. And our key players are in their 30s and we’ve relied on them to play every single minute because we have no replacements.

Tav and Lundstrum were unanimously our best outfield players other than Sima.

Gone over this ad nauseum. But they’ve played an insane amount of football. And anyone with 2 eyes can see they aren’t the same players they were when we were rag dolling Hearts.

Mentality doesn’t explain why Lundstrum and Tav look like they’re towing a caravan again.

Lundstrum had a spell where he was first to everything. Tav was up and down the line like his old self. Now he barely passes the half way line and looks like he’s running on fumes.

Forgetting general shite play. But have you ever seen us be outrun and outfought so easily as these last few games. Thats mental and physical fatigue.

Then you add in key injuries and our replacements are fucking miles off it.

My guess is Tav, Goldson and Lundstrum will be here next year because they contribute enough when they are fresh. But gone are the days of signings like Lawrence.

Clement will build a young and athletic squad capable of playing with the intensity he wants over a full season. And twice a week if need be with players that won’t get injured. And then he won’t have to run guys like Tav into the ground again. And I’m sure he’ll be looking for a new captain.

So maybe overcooking a squad has had a role in four or five shit end of season results for Clement.

[MacBoyd 5,463]

32 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Mate we've dropped 10 points in FIVE games and you think that's the same as Gio dropping 2 more in an additional 10 games?

Wit?

That's took me by surprise 

[OrangeRab 2,764]

14 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

So maybe overcooking a squad has had a role in four or five shit end of season results for Clement.

Interesting. Haven’t followed his results before. Is there previous?

Tbf I think it’s 100% the right approach to Scottish football. But you have to have the squad to do it.

Moving the winter break was the biggest joke when Postecoglou was at celtic. Arguably saved them the league title that year. They were falling like flys and stumbling.
Then he was able to sign a load of athletic young players that could press. And they were out of Europe.

Probably a good chance this Spurs do shit into the end of the season.

Sort of see it in a lot of the top clubs now. Halaand and De Bruyne asking to get subbed in a CL match against Madrid because they are tired is mental. It’s become so much a game about intensity, pressing and off the ball movement.

City usually have the advantage in that they have a bigger squad, can rotate through the season a bit more and finish stronger than Arsenal or Liverpool. 

Sky have some ridiculous stat about how many goals celtic’s replacements have.

The galling thing is with the CL money I really think him and Koppen could have built a young squad that could have had success for years.

[Rangers_no1 32,534]

3 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Moving the winter break was the biggest joke when Postecoglou was at celtic. Arguably saved them the league title that year. They were falling like flys and stumbling.

Nothing arguable about it mate, 1000% the case.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 10,932]

15 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Interesting. Haven’t followed his results before. Is there previous?

Tbf I think it’s 100% the right approach to Scottish football. But you have to have the squad to do it.

Moving the winter break was the biggest joke when Postecoglou was at celtic. Arguably saved them the league title that year. They were falling like flys and stumbling.
Then he was able to sign a load of athletic young players that could press. And they were out of Europe.

Probably a good chance this Spurs do shit into the end of the season.

Sort of see it in a lot of the top clubs now. Halaand and De Bruyne asking to get subbed in a CL match against Madrid because they are tired is mental. It’s become so much a game about intensity, pressing and off the ball movement.

City usually have the advantage in that they have a bigger squad, can rotate through the season a bit more and finish stronger than Arsenal or Liverpool. 

Sky have some ridiculous stat about how many goals celtic’s replacements have.

The galling thing is with the CL money I really think him and Koppen could have built a young squad that could have had success for years.

Yeah completely agree.

On Clement’s previous, lost 5 out of last 7 at Monaco last season and apparently similar poor end of season runs even when winning titles.

[Loyal72 11,198]

1 hour ago, MacBoyd said:

That's took me by surprise 

5 from a possible 15 😫

[6superbarry6 14,159]

The mental thing to me is that their seems to be an arrogance about Goldson and Tav and they half arse it until they are under the cosh, they haven’t achieved anywhere near enough in their Rangers careers to think they can hand arse it or be arrogant about anything.