VAR - what needs to change?

[theiconicman 2,994]

1 hour ago, AGC123 said:

Start with you have to be clearly offside, whenever the lines come out and you start measuring in mm it’s a farce 

I think they can simplify it to just look at the feet placement and draw lines from there, this looking at shoulders and shit is mental.

[theiconicman 2,994]

1 hour ago, SonicWill said:

We're never going to get rid of it because the basic premise that led to its introduction is that referees were making mistakes in games that now potentially cost teams tens of millions of pounds. People will come back and say that they still make mistakes with VAR, which is true, but it's a lower amount. So the issue people generally have is with the process, the length of time and how it affects the flow of a game.

I think the best way is to introduce a "challenge" system, similar to tennis and basketball. Every match, a manager has a challenge they can use to ask VAR to review a decision. This can only be for certain things - to reverse the decision on a goal (either one that is awarded or has been cut off), to reverse a second yellow/red card, to query potential serious foul play (for example, they've seen one of their players get elbowed or they feel that an opponent who has just been booked should have been red carded instead) and for mistaken identity (player disciplined for something they didn't do). 

If they are successful, they retain their challenge. If not, they have no further challenges for the match. Keeping it for these specific circumstances would also ensure managers (I'm looking at you, Mourinho) wouldn't be able to use their challenge as a way to either kill time or kill the momentum of a match.

It would also add an element of tactics to the challenges - do you risk it 10 minutes in on a goal that's been disallowed, knowing if you're wrong you can't challenge anything later on in the match, for example? 

I think the greatest attraction for me, though, is that it's probably the closest we're going to get to that feeling of euphoria when the ball hits the back of the net. Now, when we start celebrating, there's always that question mark hanging over our head of is the goal going to count. Think back to Lundstram against Leipzig. I remember going mental but a tiny part of me was worried that Sakala had fouled the keeper, and sure enough it goes to a VAR check. A challenge system will eliminate most of this fear as every goal won't be getting scrutinised.

Great idea, wish the OP had suggested this =)

[theiconicman 2,994]

11 minutes ago, AberfeldyBlue said:

" I have to sympathise"

 

no you dinnae

 

Well fair enough, nothing is too bad for those cunts but the point was I don't agree with how VAR is being used, so yeah, bad turn of phrase.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 11,116]

Anecdotal but think we’ve benefited from it more than we’ve lost out.

More pressing issues are fixing the offside and handball rules.

[Bad Robot 21,374]

I think it’s all about trying to get most of the big decisions right as refs are only human and players are cheating lying cunts.
 

I think it’s great 👏👏

[BigDak 804]

1 hour ago, SonicWill said:

 It would also add an element of tactics to the challenges - do you risk it 10 minutes in on a goal that's been disallowed, knowing if you're wrong you can't challenge anything later on in the match, for example? 

Under that system is there a time limit after which you can't challenge? Also, and I'm not sure what the current VAR rules are on rewinding time, but if you correctly challenged a decision that was ten minutes ago do they rewind the clock ten minutes?

[SonicWill 837]

1 minute ago, BigDak said:

Under that system is there a time limit after which you can't challenge? Also, and I'm not sure what the current VAR rules are on rewinding time, but if you correctly challenged a decision that was ten minutes ago do they rewind the clock ten minutes?

It's got to be before the next play in basketball or before the next point in tennis. So, in football terms, it would need to be during the next stoppage in play (or, if the play has already stopped ie for a goal, prior to a restart).

[BigDak 804]

8 minutes ago, SonicWill said:

It's got to be before the next play in basketball or before the next point in tennis. So, in football terms, it would need to be during the next stoppage in play (or, if the play has already stopped ie for a goal, prior to a restart).

Ah right. That makes sense. So the way football is it'd probably need to be pretty much an instantaneous shout.

[Moody Blue Legend 61,670]

Last night was 100% correct decisions.  VAR wasn’t the problem, the problem was the referee didn’t red card him right away.

[Jamie0202 12,389]

2 hours ago, AGC123 said:

Start with you have to be clearly offside, whenever the lines come out and you start measuring in mm it’s a farce 

The problem with that is that you're still going to be measuring in millimetres at some point. If you set the threshold for clearly offside to lets say 6 inches then what about when a player is 2mm short of 6 inches? In that scenario he would be onside but 2mm forward he's offside so you still have the fine margins we have just now.

Personally I think that offsides should be automated using computer technology just like during the World Cup. It would speed up the decisions which should help the game as a spectacle. It worked worked well at the World Cup and I suspect that it will be brought in to the bigger leagues and in Europe sooner or later. Cost as usual will be the issue for the smaller leagues like ours. 

[ShanksRFC 3,870]

Maeda is a dirty wee cunt, he makes challenges like that all the time in Scotland and gets away with it. He was rightfully sent off last night.

[MacBoyd 5,517]

I'd love to bin it but we will never go back. Watched a program about Henry this morning scored v man u said he knew he was offside and got away with it, going back to thst sort of thing wouldn't be accepted.

[graeme_4 34,778]

Might just be me, but I like VAR. Gets far more right that wrong, and that can only be a good thing. 

[OrangeRab 2,841]

I think it’s fundamentally flawed. It ruins what makes football great which is celebrating goals.

No other sport is a goal (or the equivalent) so celebrated because they aren’t as important (don’t change the match outcomes as much).

People barely cheer a basketball 3 pointer or a cricket wicket or a rugby try or penalty in the same way. (Unless it’s really late on and then it has a similar impact).

A goal in football is 0 to ecstasy. But Var dilutes this by turning every goal into almost like a penalty. Where it’s likely a goal but not certain until Var reviews it for several minutes.

And nobody celebrates a penalty quite as much as a goal. Because you don’t have the same instantaneous emotion change. 
 

It’s fucking shite scoring and then having to hold your celebration. And these used to be the best moments of your life going absolutely bedlam for a last minute winner.

So what you supposedly gain in more correct decisions isn’t worth it for me.

[Brubear 2,930]

2 hours ago, Bad Robot said:

I think it’s all about trying to get most of the big decisions right as refs are only human and players are cheating lying cunts.
 

I think it’s great 👏👏

Was it great when Roofe's goal against them was disallowed when almost every on field referee would have awarded a goal. 

[CXB 4,438]

If the Var panel can't make a decision in say 60 seconds, then the referees decision should stand.

[Bad Robot 21,374]

3 minutes ago, Brubear said:

Was it great when Roofe's goal against them was disallowed when almost every on field referee would have awarded a goal. 

It was shit when Morelos’s goal was chopped as well but that was the idiots in the var room. It gets a whole lot more right than wrong and it’s easy to cherry pick 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,867]

5 hours ago, RFC55 said:

Absolutely fucking bonkers. The wee cunt went in high and done the player.

 

But he's not that type of player......

[graeme_4 34,778]

3 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

It was shit when Morelos’s goal was chopped as well but that was the idiots in the var room. It gets a whole lot more right than wrong and it’s easy to cherry pick 

No it wasn’t. Clancy stopped play before the goal went in. VAR couldn’t intervene and give a goal. 

[Bad Robot 21,374]

21 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

I think it’s fundamentally flawed. It ruins what makes football great which is celebrating goals.

No other sport is a goal (or the equivalent) so celebrated because they aren’t as important (don’t change the match outcomes as much).

People barely cheer a basketball 3 pointer or a cricket wicket or a rugby try or penalty in the same way. (Unless it’s really late on and then it has a similar impact).

A goal in football is 0 to ecstasy. But Var dilutes this by turning every goal into almost like a penalty. Where it’s likely a goal but not certain until Var reviews it for several minutes.

And nobody celebrates a penalty quite as much as a goal. Because you don’t have the same instantaneous emotion change. 
 

It’s fucking shite scoring and then having to hold your celebration. And these used to be the best moments of your life going absolutely bedlam for a last minute winner.

So what you supposedly gain in more correct decisions isn’t worth it for me.

I disagree as no one doesn’t celebrate a goal just in case VAR cancels it.

[Bad Robot 21,374]

1 minute ago, graeme_4 said:

No it wasn’t. Clancy stopped play before the goal went in. VAR couldn’t intervene and give a goal. 

fair did but var still gets the majority of decisions right. It’s not going anywhere but hopefully decision making gets faster 

[OrangeRab 2,841]

38 minutes ago, Bad Robot said:

I disagree as no one doesn’t celebrate a goal just in case VAR cancels it.

Disagree - You celebrate it but it’s not quite the same as it was pre Var for me. If there’s a tight through ball and you know you’re going to have to wait for the Var check and it might be ruled out. It just takes the edge off it.

And the same when it’s given you don’t quite get the same bounce.

0 to 100 isn’t the same as 0 to 70% to 100%. 
 

A last minute winner should be absolute bedlam and one of the great moments where you lose your shit. Not having to worry about it getting chalked off

[Bad Robot 21,374]

10 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

Disagree - You celebrate it but it’s not quite the same as it was pre Var for me. If there’s a tight through ball and you know you’re going to have to wait for the Var check and it might be ruled out. It just takes the edge off it.

And the same when it’s given you don’t quite get the same bounce.

0 to 100 isn’t the same as 0 to 70% to 100%. 
 

A last minute winner should be absolute bedlam and one of the great moments where you lose your shit. Not having to worry about it getting chalked off

Sorry I’ve seen no difference in anyone celebrating a goal 

[MisterC 12,315]

8 hours ago, gmcf said:

I think there's too much onus on the referee if he's asked to have another look - he'd need to be very brave to still think he's still right after another ref , on VAR with every angle , tells him to look again . 

I like what they do in rugby , where the ref explains what he is seeing , and actually discusses it with the VAR team at any contentious moment ,  and the spectators get to hear his reasoning behind that decision . Won't happen though . 

The spectators in the stands don't get to hear what's being discussed, it's only on the TV where the fans get to hear it. 

[CharlieHamilton 363]

2 minutes ago, MisterC said:

The spectators in the stands don't get to hear what's being discussed, it's only on the TV where the fans get to hear it. 

I’d rather listen to some of the punters around me than wee tams take on it any way to be fair