Player recruitment us v them

[DMax399 3,785]

35 minutes ago, rabc10000 said:

I think what a lot of people are overlooking is that in the summer they took ages to get the manager in they now have, coupled with literally having to build a full starting lineup as well ( I'm sure calum mcgregor was the only first pick remaining from the previous year that played on Wed night) so it was obvious that they would struggle in the first few weeks of the season, which they did. 

Since late sept/early Oct they started to gel as a team and gradually improve and grind out results while they were struggling. 

Its a safe bet to assume that they will be on a massive high after wednesday night and would expect them now to continue their run, same as if it was the opposite way round. They are now at the stage where domestically they haven't even been behind in a game for 20 games or so. That must be a massive boost for the players knowing they hardly ever go behind in games in scotland

Fair comment.  They had to improve as they were honking last season.  But, we shouldn’t forget that in the 2 games before us, Hearts would have taken 2 points of them if the post hadn’t knocked the penalty to safely and likewise D Utd were seconds from doing likewise.  My point being, let’s not pretend they are some unbeatable force. We will find out over the next 14 games if my optimism stands up.  

[rabc10000 5,061]

4 minutes ago, DMax399 said:

Fair comment.  They had to improve as they were honking last season.  But, we shouldn’t forget that in the 2 games before us, Hearts would have taken 2 points of them if the post hadn’t knocked the penalty to safely and likewise D Utd were seconds from doing likewise.  My point being, let’s not pretend they are some unbeatable force. We will find out over the next 14 games if my optimism stands up.  

All ifs and buts more than anything. If we hadn't conceded last min vs Ross County, hearts etc then we would be further ahead of them rather than behind them. Ultimately what matters more than anything is the points on the board. 

Personally i feel that by pointing out they could have dropped points here or their is glossing over the fact of how poor we have been since the winter break and rather than looking at ourselves we are looking elsewhere and blaming others for our errors

 

As I asked before, it would be Interesting to see how many points we have lost with late goals conceded compared to how many points they have picked up late on in games. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,701]

52 minutes ago, rabc10000 said:

All ifs and buts more than anything. If we hadn't conceded last min vs Ross County, hearts etc then we would be further ahead of them rather than behind them. Ultimately what matters more than anything is the points on the board. 

Personally i feel that by pointing out they could have dropped points here or their is glossing over the fact of how poor we have been since the winter break and rather than looking at ourselves we are looking elsewhere and blaming others for our errors

 

As I asked before, it would be Interesting to see how many points we have lost with late goals conceded compared to how many points they have picked up late on in games. 

Doesn't really matter when the goals have been conceded its the manner of them, with one OF win each they have taken a point more against the rest of the SPFL than we have

However, how many of their dropped points have been absolute clangers, i dont mean just shite defending like being bullied at a cross etc, i mean genuine absolute howlers, i really don't think they have had any, whereas mcgregor himself has cost us 4pts this season, im sure theres one more thats cost us two points, 

If we cut out the individual errors we are better than them outside of OF games, its just for some reason we are prone to more clangers, wether its down to pressure or lacklustre performances who knows 

[Swagger 8,237]

2 hours ago, rabc10000 said:

I think what a lot of people are overlooking is that in the summer they took ages to get the manager in they now have, coupled with literally having to build a full starting lineup as well ( I'm sure calum mcgregor was the only first pick remaining from the previous year that played on Wed night) so it was obvious that they would struggle in the first few weeks of the season, which they did. 

Since late sept/early Oct they started to gel as a team and gradually improve and grind out results while they were struggling. 

Its a safe bet to assume that they will be on a massive high after wednesday night and would expect them now to continue their run, same as if it was the opposite way round. They are now at the stage where domestically they haven't even been behind in a game for 20 games or so. That must be a massive boost for the players knowing they hardly ever go behind in games in scotland

You really can’t see them dropping much while we look likely to concede from every corner 

[WWTC 2,247]

3 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

And again it comes back to wages etc, how do you strengthen a title winning team within wage budget, its not like we sold first teamers and had to replace them

Imagine replacing helander or goldson, how much we thinking of spending on fees nevermind wages

Without going into the economics, you find a way, you dont stand still which is exactly what we did.

[SIRB_72 4,033]

The biggest worry for me in terms of recruitment is we've built a squad for one manager and one system. All of that worked really well, we had different pieces for each position that all worked though they may do different things.

This is what is frustrating though. We've built this squad, and a good squad at that, with one vision in mind and then brought in a manager with a completely different vision in mind.

We have attacking full backs when the current manager prefers more conservative FBs. We have signed players who can start outside but like to come inside such as Kent, Aribo, Hagi even Sakala. Now we have a manager to likes out and out wingers so fuck knows why we signed Diallo who likes to come inside?

We had 4 numbers 6s because the need was there but now we have a manager who only uses 1 so again fuck knows why we signed Sands?

We rarely used number 8s under Gerrard, the only one I'd consider a true number 8 is Arfield but Aribo can clearly play there but again we've signed a manager who clearly likes to use two number 8s who will break into the box. Ramsey in that regard is actually a properly good fit.

Diallo & Sands would have fit under Gerrard more than Gio for me whereas Ramsey is perfect for Gio.

The positive in regards to Gio and recruitment is that in the summer there will be a turnover and he can bring in what he needs, if aloud. However that doesn't help us right now.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,701]

1 hour ago, WWTC said:

Without going into the economics, you find a way, you dont stand still which is exactly what we did.

So how would we have improved and atrengthened an already expensive to use, undefeated league winning team? 

[WWTC 2,247]

Just now, Jimbeamjunior said:

So how would we have improved and atrengthened an already expensive to use, undefeated league winning team? 

You want me to go through the running of a football club and our personnel? Ive no idea if anyone made any offers for any players, or the wage bill, but we clearly increased that with the three signings we made.
Like I said in my previous post, you find a way. The fact is our summer transfer dealings were awful. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,701]

Just now, WWTC said:

You want me to go through the running of a football club and our personnel? Ive no idea if anyone made any offers for any players, or the wage bill, but we clearly increased that with the three signings we made.
Like I said in my previous post, you find a way. The fact is our summer transfer dealings were awful. 

So we signed 4 players, all for the cost of nothing, 2 of these players played in the EPL, one of whom was a regular for two years now, one is an international striker who was playing regularly in the belgian league and the other was the young Bournemouth boy

Now not forgetting that without player sales or CL income we run at a massive loss, the board then go and agree to a wage increase (signing these 4 guys) nevermind bacuna as well near the end of the window

All the while we moved on absolutely no one, didn't reduce the wage bill one single bit

Infact since gerrard came not once have we reduced the outgoings, we just kept adding to them

Now should we have taken the chance and sold say, kamara, kent, morelos barisic etc last summer for money, less wages utilised and frees up squad space yeah probably, however we needed people to bid for them what we valued them at, no one did

[WWTC 2,247]

17 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

So we signed 4 players, all for the cost of nothing, 2 of these players played in the EPL, one of whom was a regular for two years now, one is an international striker who was playing regularly in the belgian league and the other was the young Bournemouth boy

Now not forgetting that without player sales or CL income we run at a massive loss, the board then go and agree to a wage increase (signing these 4 guys) nevermind bacuna as well near the end of the window

All the while we moved on absolutely no one, didn't reduce the wage bill one single bit

Infact since gerrard came not once have we reduced the outgoings, we just kept adding to them

Now should we have taken the chance and sold say, kamara, kent, morelos barisic etc last summer for money, less wages utilised and frees up squad space yeah probably, however we needed people to bid for them what we valued them at, no one did

Yeah, 4 players, all on freebies, each one a squad player at best. 
We stood still. Up until January, pur best starting 11 compromised of the same starting 11 as last season. 

I get what you’re saying, but my point remains the same.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 11,150]

1 hour ago, SIRB_72 said:

The biggest worry for me in terms of recruitment is we've built a squad for one manager and one system. All of that worked really well, we had different pieces for each position that all worked though they may do different things.

This is what is frustrating though. We've built this squad, and a good squad at that, with one vision in mind and then brought in a manager with a completely different vision in mind.

We have attacking full backs when the current manager prefers more conservative FBs. We have signed players who can start outside but like to come inside such as Kent, Aribo, Hagi even Sakala. Now we have a manager to likes out and out wingers so fuck knows why we signed Diallo who likes to come inside?

We had 4 numbers 6s because the need was there but now we have a manager who only uses 1 so again fuck knows why we signed Sands?

We rarely used number 8s under Gerrard, the only one I'd consider a true number 8 is Arfield but Aribo can clearly play there but again we've signed a manager who clearly likes to use two number 8s who will break into the box. Ramsey in that regard is actually a properly good fit.

Diallo & Sands would have fit under Gerrard more than Gio for me whereas Ramsey is perfect for Gio.

The positive in regards to Gio and recruitment is that in the summer there will be a turnover and he can bring in what he needs, if aloud. However that doesn't help us right now.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that.

But - didn't Wilson give an interview where he said that the idea was to recruit players with a certain set of characteristics (skill, mentality, pace, football intelligence etc.) to continue with an identity at the club where any new manager coming in wouldn't need to rip the whole thing up again?

Gio was an appointment to appease the fans and it worked. The full support more or less were massively in favour of it.

He has time to turn this around and quietly I think he might but he can't be given a second season if he doesn't win the league, particularly if there is a huge collapse.

[sausagetrunks 6,071]

every celtic player looked brilliant the other nigh, every single of of them, thats what happens when you have no tactics and sit of them 20 yards. 

 

thats why they looked good. fuck them get our own house in order. 

[GaryMc 2,394]

My biggest concern with our recruitment compared to theirs is that their manager has went out and got players he knows will fit his system. He's already shipped the ones he didn't want in the summer out on loan or they are at best squad players.

Whereas we've brought in Gio and he's got Sands, a young Polish right back, Diallo and Aaron Ramsey. None of those signing suggest to me the manager requested them or recommended them on his own. They've been brought to him.

He was in the door long enough that you'd have thought he'd have a few players from say Hollandthat he knew would fit his style and be relatively cheap or available on loan.

For the record I'm not saying they won't be good signings, just more the fact that if our manager had a style & system he wanted to implement you'd think he'd be targeting specific players.

[SIRB_72 4,033]

36 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that.

But - didn't Wilson give an interview where he said that the idea was to recruit players with a certain set of characteristics (skill, mentality, pace, football intelligence etc.) to continue with an identity at the club where any new manager coming in wouldn't need to rip the whole thing up again?

Gio was an appointment to appease the fans and it worked. The full support more or less were massively in favour of it.

He has time to turn this around and quietly I think he might but he can't be given a second season if he doesn't win the league, particularly if there is a huge collapse.

Wilson's comments are a concern because Gio is pretty different from Gerrard. I was also of the opinion that it was now a "Rangers way" for lack of better term.

The weird thing is we're still signing players that would suit Gerrard more than Gio outwith Ramsey. The concern with that going forward is that for Gio to win he has to change his style or start buying for what Gio wants which I personally think is the wrong path to go down.

It was hard not to get excited about Gio and his record with Feyenoord is still impressive but maybe Wilson and the board should have been more pragmatic in their selection. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm talking about Gio as if he isn't long for this world which is stupid really!

[King Jela 20,539]

If we don't win the league we should clear out as many as possible to generate funds. Morelos, Kent, Aribo, Kamara, Barisic, Lundstram, Roofe and Hagi. Didn't include Itten and Wright because I genuinely don't think we'd get anything for them and will need to punt them out on loan. Wonder how much we could get for all of them realistically? 

[BigDak 806]

2 hours ago, GaryMc said:

My biggest concern with our recruitment compared to theirs is that their manager has went out and got players he knows will fit his system. He's already shipped the ones he didn't want in the summer out on loan or they are at best squad players.

Whereas we've brought in Gio and he's got Sands, a young Polish right back, Diallo and Aaron Ramsey. None of those signing suggest to me the manager requested them or recommended them on his own. They've been brought to him.

He was in the door long enough that you'd have thought he'd have a few players from say Hollandthat he knew would fit his style and be relatively cheap or available on loan.

For the record I'm not saying they won't be good signings, just more the fact that if our manager had a style & system he wanted to implement you'd think he'd be targeting specific players.

It’s funny how these things get flipped depending on how the team is doing.

I remember a few months ago They we’re getting slated for the fact that they were relying on their manager to buy players and it showed they don’t have a scouting system or DoF in place. But off the back of Wednesday it’s being played off as a positive.

I appreciate you personally didn’t say the first part but that was the general feeling in the media etc.

I appreciate we’re in shite form but I just think everyone needs to calm down a wee bit for now.

[GaryMc 2,394]

12 hours ago, BigDak said:

It’s funny how these things get flipped depending on how the team is doing.

I remember a few months ago They we’re getting slated for the fact that they were relying on their manager to buy players and it showed they don’t have a scouting system or DoF in place. But off the back of Wednesday it’s being played off as a positive.

I appreciate you personally didn’t say the first part but that was the general feeling in the media etc.

I appreciate we’re in shite form but I just think everyone needs to calm down a wee bit for now.

I think what you're saying is correct in general as you'd rather have a structure in place that everyone buys into including the manager.

However I'd like think that as Gio was seen as the perfect fit by Ross Wilson then he'd have the opportunity & ability to identify his own players to suit his style and propose them to Wilson and the board.

I'm not saying that hasn't happened as obviously nobody knows that for sure but the signings so far don't suggest it's happening.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,701]

16 hours ago, GaryMc said:

My biggest concern with our recruitment compared to theirs is that their manager has went out and got players he knows will fit his system. He's already shipped the ones he didn't want in the summer out on loan or they are at best squad players.

Whereas we've brought in Gio and he's got Sands, a young Polish right back, Diallo and Aaron Ramsey. None of those signing suggest to me the manager requested them or recommended them on his own. They've been brought to him.

He was in the door long enough that you'd have thought he'd have a few players from say Hollandthat he knew would fit his style and be relatively cheap or available on loan.

For the record I'm not saying they won't be good signings, just more the fact that if our manager had a style & system he wanted to implement you'd think he'd be targeting specific players.

They are paying mccarthy tens of thousands a week, they rushed mcgregor back for the OF, what does that tell you 

We have absolutely no idea what gio has said to wilson, remember our scouting team etc have spent years looking for players to fit gerrards system, now in the space of ten weeks they are supposed to have an affordable list of players to fit gios system, no chance

 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

They are paying mccarthy tens of thousands a week, they rushed mcgregor back for the OF, what does that tell you 

We have absolutely no idea what gio has said to wilson, remember our scouting team etc have spent years looking for players to fit gerrards system, now in the space of ten weeks they are supposed to have an affordable list of players to fit gios system, no chance

 

Which is fair enough but if you go back to several of Wilson's interview, he regularly spoke about succession planning being in place for the management so that when one left and was replaced, it wasn't effectively a big reset but here we are and it all feels like a big reset.

[CoplandRoad83 3,347]

23 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Which is fair enough but if you go back to several of Wilson's interview, he regularly spoke about succession planning being in place for the management so that when one left and was replaced, it wasn't effectively a big reset but here we are and it all feels like a big reset.

Wilson puts an ultra optimistic spin on everything though. In reality, any new manager is going to suss things out for himself and likely change things.  The only thing even close to a frictionless succession would have been something like Beale taking over.

[rabc10000 5,061]

57 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Which is fair enough but if you go back to several of Wilson's interview, he regularly spoke about succession planning being in place for the management so that when one left and was replaced, it wasn't effectively a big reset but here we are and it all feels like a big reset.

I've mentioned that a few times in here and no one managed to reply with an answer. However this is exactly what I thought Wilson would have done when Gerrard left. 

[GOAT 30,449]

Every one of their January signings have made a difference since signing.  Ours...well least said the better so far.

[GaryMc 2,394]

21 hours ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

They are paying mccarthy tens of thousands a week, they rushed mcgregor back for the OF, what does that tell you 

We have absolutely no idea what gio has said to wilson, remember our scouting team etc have spent years looking for players to fit gerrards system, now in the space of ten weeks they are supposed to have an affordable list of players to fit gios system, no chance

 

Totally agree that we have no idea what has went on behind the scenes but surely Gio would know what he wants. Transfer window now has now shut but not sure we've signed players Gio wants. We'll know soon enough though.

Ps I was at the game today and thought we were outstanding so that's the reaction I wanted! Keep that up and we'll be fine.