Jason Cummings; Why did we take him on Loan?

[Ozblue 4,331]

I had a look at the Jason Cummings thread by, islandblue and very predictably the opinions of our members varied from; "Keep him, he's a great buy" to, "He's fucking shite and a waste of money" ; then we had posters who weren't sure either way, (me included) so I decided to have a closer look at his time with us since he arrived at the end of January, which after doing so made me wonder why the fuck did we bother bringing the lad to Ibrox in the first place.

The answer to that was obvious; We wanted to have a look at him with the option of signing him on a permanent deal in this current transfer window. Now it's my opinion that to have a proper look at a potential signing, he has to get the opportunity to show what he can do, or as we say in Australia, he has to get a "Fair suck of the Sav". Well, after delving into the stats, I don't think the lad got that opportunity, so what do you think troops?

Premier League: Played 15 games- scored 2 goals.

Aberdeen - Substitute for Morelos 70th minute..............Ross County - Substitute for Morelos 79th minute (scored 82nd minute) ...........Hibs - Substitute for Holt 71st minute

Partick Thistle - Subbed 81st minute by Morelos...........Hamilton Accies - Substitute for Morelos 79th minute...............Hearts - Substitute for Morelos 75th minute

St. Johnstone - Substitute for Candeias 62nd minute..........SCUM - Substitute for Goss 74th minute..........Kilmarnock - Played the full game

Motherwell - Substitute for Windass 82nd minute.............Dundee - Unused substitute ........................Hearts - Subbed 86th minute by Morelos (scored 47th minute)

SCUM - Played the full game....................................Kilmarnock - Subbed 45th minute by McCrorie......... Aberdeen- Substitute for Holt 61st minute

Hibs - Subbed 62nd minute by Windass.

Total contribution in the Premier League: Played 2 full games............Unused Substitute in 1 game................ Substituted in 4 games=274 minutes played

Appeared as Substitute in 9 games for a total of 157 minutes played

 

Scottish FA Cup: Played 3 games - scored 4 goals;   Fraserburgh- Subbed 71st minute by Dodoo.........Ayr Utd. - Subbed 76th minute by Herrera (scored 66th minute)

Falkirk - Played full game (scored 16th, 21st, 75th minute)

In conclusion, no matter how good or how bad you think he is, or if Gerrard fancies him as an asset or not, Murty never did him any favours to show his worth

 

[Leeds_Bear 8,110]

Played on his own or out on the left, we wasted our chance to look at him.

That said, I didn’t think he was great or good enough. 

[orangecountry 148]

Became an outstanding player when sitting on the bench. Failed to deliver when he got a chance 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,725]

We brought him in to try to help Murty to succeed.

That challenge needed a helluva lot more than Jason Cummings.

[Amato 3,016]

Never got much of a chance, difficult to say really. I liked him and his attitude when he did play but doubt he's got the quality we need. Don't see him as playing a big role in a title winning side.

Having said that, no doubt will sign for Hibs or Hearts and score 20+

[Hamie 4,842]

Didn't think he was that great for us. But something tells me it's a mistake not taking him. Murty was an apologetic clown who had no idea how utilise him.

He'll probably end up going to the sheep and bang in 25 odd goals next season.  

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Great analysis Oz

Pity we could not get the opportunity to assess him properly under a decent manager who knows what he's doing

[Colin Traive 22,779]

As things stand, we’re down to Morelos (who may or may not be swapped for Skrtel) and Windass as attackers. I’m assuming that Herrera will be handed into a charity shop or put on Gumtree if nobody will buy him so I’m disregarding him. Candieas and Murphy through the middle? Can’t see it to be honest.

So even if Gerrard pulls a Katic type deal out of the hat for a striker, we still need cover. At 600/700k, Cummings would do for me. Hard to judge any player on last season’s car crash of a campaign but I think that, under proper direction and management, we could get more out of him.

Biggest thing against offering him a deal is actually his close friendship with that cunt Allan. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Oh poor wee Jason he never got a chance, load of pish. 

If he was half as good as he thinks he is he would’ve grabbed any chance he got to show he deserved a starting place. 

The only fact that needs to be looked at is he failed miserably. Just as well he’s a cheeky chappy from Scotland and not a miserable sod from Columbia our we wouldn’t be having this discussion. 

[Ozblue 4,331]

5 minutes ago, D'Artagnan said:

Great analysis Oz

Pity we could not get the opportunity to assess him properly under a decent manager who knows what he's doing

Thanks, D'Art. I agree with you 100% about the outcome of his loan period and it makes me wonder who actually instigated it in the first place. The phrase; "Timing is everything" comes to mind in this case, because it certainly wasn't the right time for Cummings.

[KeyserSoze 14,545]

We had him on loan because we believed he had potential based on his scoring attributes in a Hivs championship team. 

He was given plenty opportunities to shine at a higher level but unfortunately we didn’t have the luxury of “time”  on our side to give him a longer period to come good in games  

we need first team players to hit the ground running at Rangers if not then that’s what the “squad “ is for  

from what I see, Cummings is only ever going to be a squad player and we have enough of them at the club  

remember too our coaching team continually assess players at training every day, so it’s not only game time we can go on  

 

 

 

[Amac9 2,060]

Don't think he got a proper run of games from the start with a partner beside him.

That being said I just don't think he is good enough. Might get goals against lesser teams but I wouldn't fancy him in games away at celtc, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen.

If we can get him relatively cheap then he wouldn't be the worst squad option but anything over £600k and we should just forget it.

[TMB 14,167]

There was no point bringing him here.  Murty went with a lone striker formation from January onwards and we already had Morelos doing very well.  Cummings is a penalty box striker and to get the best out of him we'd need to go two up top which we rarely did.  If we're not going to play a two striker formation next season there's no point in signing him.

[TMB 14,167]

23 minutes ago, Amac9 said:

Don't think he got a proper run of games from the start with a partner beside him.

That being said I just don't think he is good enough. Might get goals against lesser teams but I wouldn't fancy him in games away at celtc, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen.

If we can get him relatively cheap then he wouldn't be the worst squad option but anything over £600k and we should just forget it.

He scored against Hearts and Aberdeen before (albeit for Hibs).  Not sure he had much game time against Hibs or celtic.  

[Ozblue 4,331]

38 minutes ago, TMB said:

There was no point bringing him here.  Murty went with a lone striker formation from January onwards and we already had Morelos doing very well.  Cummings is a penalty box striker and to get the best out of him we'd need to go two up top which we rarely did.  If we're not going to play a two striker formation next season there's no point in signing him.

1

Which is why I asked the question; why the fuck did we sign him on a loan deal?

[KeyserSoze 14,545]

39 minutes ago, TMB said:

He scored against Hearts and Aberdeen before (albeit for Hibs).  Not sure he had much game time against Hibs or celtic.  

In the 18 games he played in the SPFL before Hivs got demoted he managed to score zero goals against anybody 

none, no not one 

[harlands plater 16,981]

He did score a couple of decent goals for Hibs before going to Forest, but I wonder if part of  the reason for us signing him was to give us a “personality” player, someone the fans could focus on and take a bit of attention away from the piss poor management set up we had at the time.

[geronimoo 1,474]

1 hour ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Oh poor wee Jason he never got a chance, load of pish. 

If he was half as good as he thinks he is he would’ve grabbed any chance he got to show he deserved a starting place. 

The only fact that needs to be looked at is he failed miserably. Just as well he’s a cheeky chappy from Scotland and not a miserable sod from Columbia our we wouldn’t be having this discussion. 

So True. In football sometimes you only get a small chance and you need to grab it from the start.

[quabba 440]

We could be saying the same for Morelos, has he really justified starting just about every game. Look at the chances he's missed against the scum. Now I'm not saying Cummings would have scored them but Morelos did practically nothing since the turn of the year.

Cummings wasn't given enough playing time or played in the correct position but that's down to our clueless manager.

If we could get him for 500k, I would take him.

[roboscot 1,176]

I really wanted him to do well, but as Oz points out, he didn't get that much of a run to build any form and he wasn't suited to the formation.

I think he's a 2nd striker, someone who could play off a target man but 2 up front is so out of fashion at the moment there's not much chance of seeing him next season.

I'd be very surprised if we're not currently tracking striking options better than Cummings.

[hammer93 15,057]

1 hour ago, KeyserSoze said:

In the 18 games he played in the SPFL before Hivs got demoted he managed to score zero goals against anybody 

none, no not one 

When he was 18?

How many of those games did he actually start.....I remember him scoring the 2 goals in the 1st leg play off against Hamilton.....that was the 1st time I actually knew anything about him?

It is a fair point to suggest that he never got a fair crack.....if he had played 6 full 90mins on the spin at any given time we could of made an honest assessment, only twice did he get a full 90mins?

Murty was clueless and would struggle to utilise a team that had both Messi & Ronaldo in it.

I'd take a punt on him as we are thin on the ground up top...put him in a better set up in his favoured position and I'm certain he will score goals for us.

[HuistraHairDo 12,490]

I think murty was out his depth and didn't have the balls to play 2  up top or we would've seen a lot more of JC, both him and Morelos would've benefited IMO. Morelos played his best football at the start of the season with miller along side him.

to answer the op fuck knows why we brought him, prob to get the fans off the boards back.

i wouldn't be bothered either way if he goes, well he won't be missed, if he stays he'll be a sub.

[RossS1873 1,659]

I really liked him and thought getting him would be an outstanding bit of business however he's obviously not effective playing in the lone role. I'd keep him as we are short up front unless Gerrard has something up his sleeve 

[Rum Ham 2,059]

3 hours ago, Ozblue said:

I had a look at the Jason Cummings thread by, islandblue and very predictably the opinions of our members varied from; "Keep him, he's a great buy" to, "He's fucking shite and a waste of money" ; then we had posters who weren't sure either way, (me included) so I decided to have a closer look at his time with us since he arrived at the end of January, which after doing so made me wonder why the fuck did we bother bringing the lad to Ibrox in the first place.

The answer to that was obvious; We wanted to have a look at him with the option of signing him on a permanent deal in this current transfer window. Now it's my opinion that to have a proper look at a potential signing, he has to get the opportunity to show what he can do, or as we say in Australia, he has to get a "Fair suck of the Sav". Well, after delving into the stats, I don't think the lad got that opportunity, so what do you think troops?

Premier League: Played 15 games- scored 2 goals.

Aberdeen - Substitute for Morelos 70th minute..............Ross County - Substitute for Morelos 79th minute (scored 82nd minute) ...........Hibs - Substitute for Holt 71st minute

Partick Thistle - Subbed 81st minute by Morelos...........Hamilton Accies - Substitute for Morelos 79th minute...............Hearts - Substitute for Morelos 75th minute

St. Johnstone - Substitute for Candeias 62nd minute..........SCUM - Substitute for Goss 74th minute..........Kilmarnock - Played the full game

Motherwell - Substitute for Windass 82nd minute.............Dundee - Unused substitute ........................Hearts - Subbed 86th minute by Morelos (scored 47th minute)

SCUM - Played the full game....................................Kilmarnock - Subbed 45th minute by McCrorie......... Aberdeen- Substitute for Holt 61st minute

Hibs - Subbed 62nd minute by Windass.

Total contribution in the Premier League: Played 2 full games............Unused Substitute in 1 game................ Substituted in 4 games=274 minutes played

Appeared as Substitute in 9 games for a total of 157 minutes played

 

Scottish FA Cup: Played 3 games - scored 4 goals;   Fraserburgh- Subbed 71st minute by Dodoo.........Ayr Utd. - Subbed 76th minute by Herrera (scored 66th minute)

Falkirk - Played full game (scored 16th, 21st, 75th minute)

In conclusion, no matter how good or how bad you think he is, or if Gerrard fancies him as an asset or not, Murty never did him any favours to show his worth

 

He might not have done himself any favours, or gave Murty any reason to start him.

He couldn't get a game at Forest either

[MelbourneBlue 198]

Based on his performances on loan with us - albeit restricted by limited game time, as Ozblue has detailed very nicely for us - I can't see why we would make him a permanent signing at this stage of the transfer window. If we get to the end of the window and haven't been able to sign better, I suspect he will still be available. He really didn't show much when playing against the stronger sides other than a bit of petulant arm waving at his team mates and some poor first touches. My view is that we will not be where we want to be in terms of our strike set up if Cummings is signed this window.