Sun running a story about racist chants on a supporters bus upto Dingwall

[dummiesoot 16,008]

12 minutes ago, superallysbears said:

It's harming the clubs name.

I know it is, I am not commenting on that.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, The Dude said:

Probably why the club keep telling fans it isn't welcome or wanted. 

Do you think that there is any difference in how unacceptable it is for someone to be racist/sectarian?

Do you see much difference in someone calling a black player a 'monkey bastard' or calling one of their players a 'fenian bastard'?

[ForeverAndEver 71,603]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Probably why the club keep telling fans it isn't welcome or wanted. 

Let’s be honest, the songbook yesterday was sound apart from 1 song, which was the best of them all

[dummiesoot 16,008]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Who was hurt when Kudela called Kamara a monkey? Who was hurt when Morelos was being racially abused? Who was hurt by Jackson's shameful column full of cocaine references? 

Being racist isn't 'misguided fun'. How do you 'educate' when something that is clearly racist is described as 'misguided fun'? 

They might not be racists but the fact they've happily engaged in racially abusing someone on camera would tend to point to them probably being racist. 

You give excellent example if when racism is completely unacceptable- Kudela and when some see it as ok, KJ and Sellik fans towards Alfie.

Who decides where it is right and where it is wrong? 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

Do you think that there is any difference in how unacceptable it is for someone to be racist/sectarian?

Do you see much difference in someone calling a black player a 'monkey bastard' or calling one of their players a 'fenian bastard'?

Not particularly no. A racist is a racist.

The only real difference between 'black bastard' & 'fenian bastard' is most of those who use 'fenian bastard' hide behind an outdated meaning (a member of the fenian brotherhood) rather than what they really mean. There's not the same wee pathetic attempt at a get out.

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, dummiesoot said:

You give excellent example if when racism is completely unacceptable- Kudela and when some see it as ok, KJ and Sellik fans towards Alfie.

Who decides where it is right and where it is wrong? 

Weren't they both just 'misguided fun'? Slap on the wrists, move on etc?

So you agree it is "completely unacceptable" to target Kamara on the basis of his skin colour but think making slitty eyes while targeting a japanese player is just 'misguided fun'? Whats the difference between the two?

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, The Dude said:

Not particularly no. A racist is a racist.

The only real difference between 'black bastard' & 'fenian bastard' is most of those who use 'fenian bastard' hide behind an outdated meaning (a member of the fenian brotherhood) rather than what they really mean. There's not the same wee pathetic attempt at a get out.

So you think that Jackson or whoever it was that done the article on Morelos is just as bad as Kudela who called Kamara a 'monkey' to his face.

You think that someone here who calls someone a 'papist' or the likes is as bad as someone calling someone the 'n' word?

I genuinely cant understand people who see things on this binary scale.

If you think that the insults you see on here are genuinely as bad as if we were calling players the 'n' word, then I dont see how you can justify remaining on the forum. I would not be openly participating and conversing with people who called black people the 'N' word in an offensive way.

I suspect however that you are just on a moral crusade and that you fine well know yourself that there are differing levels of offence.

Given your stance, which of the following would you agree with:-

1. @Blue Avenger is reinstated to the forum on the justification that his racism is no worse than what allot of people state with their 'Tarrier/Fenian/Papist' chat.

2. Everyone who has used the 'Tarrier/Fenian/Papist' terms or everyone who has called Lawell a 'Jap' is banned on the same basis that @Blue Avenger was banned for?

If you see things as binary, it has to be one of the two options.

I think things are not as clear cut as you say. I think @Blue Avenger was rightfully banned. I also think that the insults in the second point are also offensive, but not bad enough to hand out bans for. I wouldn't use them myself, and dont think others should, but It is no-where near the level of blatant racism.

[dummiesoot 16,008]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Weren't they both just 'misguided fun'? Slap on the wrists, move on etc?

So you agree it is "completely unacceptable" to target Kamara on the basis of his skin colour but think making slitty eyes while targeting a japanese player is just 'misguided fun'? Whats the difference between the two?

In my opinion, and I have stated this elsewhere,is that they should be banned from Ibrox and following Rangers. They should not lose their jobs or have a witch hunt against them.

I also believe that pulling a face which is childish and distasteful, is completely different from calling someone a black b......d or monkey chants or a monkey signs. Which is abhorrent behaviour 

 

[Bad Robot 21,279]

23 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

So you believe that if someone on here who calls Griffiths something like a fenian bastard should be punished the same as someone who calls Eduard the 'N' word?

The first would happen frequently, the second would be rightfully and swiftly called completely unacceptable and the poster would be banned for being a complete scumbag.

Edit: Thankfully I seriously doubt that anyone on here would ever call a black player that.

Yes I do as both is verbal abuse and both would be punished in a court of law.
 

The issue also here is the fenian bastard abuse would be condemned by many such as politicians, churches, so called anti-sectarian charities and wide spread coverage by our media yet calling someone a hun bastard will be glossed over as it doesn’t suit a particular agenda which has got worse with our sitting government. The racial abuse is being pushed all over as is any abuse towards the lgbt community but again one victims voice seems to be louder than other victims and that is wrong in my opinion.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

Just now, Bad Robot said:

Yes I do as both is verbal abuse and both would be punished in a court of law.
 

The issue also here is the fenian bastard abuse would be condemned by many such as politicians, churches, so called anti-sectarian charities and wide spread coverage by our media yet calling someone a hun bastard will be glossed over as it doesn’t suit a particular agenda which has got worse with our sitting government. The racial abuse is being pushed all over as is any abuse towards the lgbt community but again one victims voice seems to be louder than other victims and that is wrong in my opinion.

So which option do you think is correct for the forum?

Do you think that :-

1. Everyone banned for racism on here such as @Blue Avenger should be reinstated.

2. We should ban everyone on here who has called Lawell the 'fat jap' or called people 'fenian/papist/tarrier bastards'.

Given your stance, one of the two options you must agree with.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

So you think that Jackson or whoever it was that done the article on Morelos is just as bad as Kudela who called Kamara a 'monkey' to his face.

You think that someone here who calls someone a 'papist' or the likes is as bad as someone calling someone the 'n' word?

I genuinely cant understand people who see things on this binary scale.

If you think that the insults you see on here are genuinely as bad as if we were calling players the 'n' word, then I dont see how you can justify remaining on the forum. I would not be openly participating and conversing with people who called black people the 'N' word in an offensive way.

I suspect however that you are just on a moral crusade and that you fine well know yourself that there are differing levels of offence.

Given your stance, which of the following would you agree with:-

1. @Blue Avenger is reinstated to the forum on the justification that his racism is no worse than what allot of people state with their 'Tarrier/Fenian/Papist' chat.

2. Everyone who has used the 'Tarrier/Fenian/Papist' terms or everyone who has called Lawell a 'Jap' is banned on the same basis that @Blue Avenger was banned for?

If you see things as binary, it has to be one of the two options.

I think things are not as clear cut as you say. I think @Blue Avenger was rightfully banned. I also think that the insults in the second point are also offensive, but not bad enough to hand out bans for. I wouldn't use them myself, and dont think others should, but It is no-where near the level of blatant racism.

I didn't realise you wanted them ranked in order of heinousness. Calling someone a racist term directly to them is worse, however it doesn't detract from the fact that the slitty eyes shit IS racist. You can employ whatever mental gymnastics you want to it. If Rangers fans are serious about 'standing with Kamara' and the other Rangers players who have been racially abused, simply pointing to racism emanating from our own and sayiing 'aye but it's not as bad as X' is genuinely pathetic. "those racists are terrible because they abused a guy a like but they ones who abused the guy I don't like are just misguided" Fuck that.

Papist isnt a racist term.

Are you suggesting I shouldn't use a forum on the internet because other posters - whom I have absolutely no control over what they post or how it is handled once they post - may post racist/sectarian comments? What a fucking ridiculous suggestion.

No idea what Blue Avenger was banned for. Didn't see the posts he was banned for and no idea what he said to get banned. If he's been banned for being racist then he's no loss to the forum.

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, dummiesoot said:

In my opinion, and I have stated this elsewhere,is that they should be banned from Ibrox and following Rangers. They should not lose their jobs or have a witch hunt against them.

I also believe that pulling a face which is childish and distasteful, is completely different from calling someone a black b......d or monkey chants or a monkey signs. 

 

If their employer wants to get rid of them for being racist and sharing it over social media, thats on them. Can't expect to act the cunt and there not be consequences.

Do you believe 'pulling that face' was racist?

[Angus1965 366]

15 hours ago, Billy Gunn said:

Jap short for Japanese, same as calling someone a Scot, nothing racist in that.

 

 

I was banned from Social Media for calling a Jap a Jap , as you say when we are called a Scot , or a Pole a Pole , or a Swede a Swede , then that's deemed non offensive  

[The Dude 20,026]

One of them has apparently quit the committee of the bus he was on:

"Just want to apologise to every member of the bus not acceptable behaviour.

"I've stepped down from the committee and won't be back on the bus.

"Club deserve so much better and I wish bus nothing but success. Again I'm sorry."

[rossDas 1,071]

10 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

So you think that Jackson or whoever it was that done the article on Morelos is just as bad as Kudela who called Kamara a 'monkey' to his face.

You think that someone here who calls someone a 'papist' or the likes is as bad as someone calling someone the 'n' word?

I genuinely cant understand people who see things on this binary scale.

If you think that the insults you see on here are genuinely as bad as if we were calling players the 'n' word, then I dont see how you can justify remaining on the forum. I would not be openly participating and conversing with people who called black people the 'N' word in an offensive way.

I suspect however that you are just on a moral crusade and that you fine well know yourself that there are differing levels of offence.

Given your stance, which of the following would you agree with:-

1. @Blue Avenger is reinstated to the forum on the justification that his racism is no worse than what allot of people state with their 'Tarrier/soap dodgers/Papist' chat.

2. Everyone who has used the 'Tarrier/soap dodgers/Papist' terms or everyone who has called Lawell a 'Jap' is banned on the same basis that @Blue Avenger was banned for?

If you see things as binary, it has to be one of the two options.

I think things are not as clear cut as you say. I think @Blue Avenger was rightfully banned. I also think that the insults in the second point are also offensive, but not bad enough to hand out bans for. I wouldn't use them myself, and dont think others should, but It is no-where near the level of blatant racism.

It's because the nation is in the grip of a moral panic about racism, and the tendency as such is not to make accurate value judgements but rather about endless purity spiraling and competing to be the biggest pearl clutcher in the room.

[dummiesoot 16,008]

4 minutes ago, The Dude said:

If their employer wants to get rid of them for being racist and sharing it over social media, thats on them. Can't expect to act the cunt and there not be consequences.

Do you believe 'pulling that face' was racist?

It is nowadays yes, there is a scale imo, racist and abusive language, gestures, have always been wrong .

Pulling a face in this example is racist and childish but not worthy of the bile coming their way when you see KJ and Leckie being openly racist and nothing done.

[Bad Robot 21,279]

4 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

So which option do you think is correct for the forum?

Do you think that :-

1. Everyone banned for racism on here such as @Blue Avenger should be reinstated.

2. We should ban everyone on here who has called Lawell the 'fat jap' or called people 'fenian/papist/tarrier bastards'.

Given your stance, one of the two options you must agree with.

I also don’t know or can’t remember the actual words which BA had used but all is wrong and your second option is always going to get some leeway particularly on a Rangers related forum where there is a degree of moderation. Dive over to their forums and I’ll sure you’ll find plenty of PUL abuse but again all these hypocrites will be banging on about the big bad Rangers and these idiots on the bus. 

[SkylineBlue 23,485]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

One of them has apparently quit the committee of the bus he was on:

"Just want to apologise to every member of the bus not acceptable behaviour.

"I've stepped down from the committee and won't be back on the bus.

"Club deserve so much better and I wish bus nothing but success. Again I'm sorry."

If he's acknowledging it then it's a start. The club still have to take action though, and we need to believe in the concept of redemption as a society.

[superallysbears 7,635]

48 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

So is half the songs sung by the fantastic away support yesterday if you listen to all the bed wetters of the world 

Would be nice if other clubs were treated as we are

That's just it, we are treated 100% differently and this kind of thing just makes it easier for the cunts to do so.

[Bad Robot 21,279]

1 minute ago, SkylineBlue said:

If he's acknowledging it then it's a start. The club still have to take action though, and we need to believe in the concept of redemption as a society.

We should go on the PR front then and get the guys to the club for some re-education, even bring the Celtic player to meet them for a personal apology. 

[VanVeenRangers 2,538]

We can't control the media or what other clubs do.

We can control ourselves when representing the club. There are always going to be bad apples in our fan base. We've seen it throughout the years that these people put us into bad light. They should never be part of following Rangers again.

Some of those defending the actions or deflecting is pretty shocking. 

Many of our fans are from a asian background. For someone to make fun of someone racially whether they play for the scum or not isnt acceptable in any way. The people deserve what's coming to them whether it be a record, job loss, or ban from Ibrox.

[plumbGER 24,518]

26 minutes ago, The Dude said:

making slitty eyes

Fuck me that reads as pretty racist on it's own.

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,509]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

1. I didn't realise you wanted them ranked in order of heinousness. Calling someone a racist term directly to them is worse, however it doesn't detract from the fact that the slitty eyes shit IS racist. You can employ whatever mental gymnastics you want to it. If Rangers fans are serious about 'standing with Kamara' and the other Rangers players who have been racially abused, simply pointing to racism emanating from our own and sayiing 'aye but it's not as bad as X' is genuinely pathetic. "those racists are terrible because they abused a guy a like but they ones who abused the guy I don't like are just misguided" Fuck that.

Papist isnt a racist term.

2. Are you suggesting I shouldn't use a forum on the internet because other posters - whom I have absolutely no control over what they post or how it is handled once they post - may post racist/sectarian comments? What a fucking ridiculous suggestion.

No idea what Blue Avenger was banned for. Didn't see the posts he was banned for and no idea what he said to get banned. If he's been banned for being racist then he's no loss to the forum.

1.

It is literally what you have been arguing about.

The post you quoted me on to start our debate I actually clearly state the 'what they did on the bus was racist' and then went on to explain in depth why there are levels to this and it is not a binary matter.

I then specifically asked you if you believe there are scales to the matter where one should be considered worse than the other. You confirmed by saying "Not particularly no. A racist is a racist."

You have now completely switched track.

2.

Yes. I would not post on a forum where people openly racially abuse black people by calling them the 'monkeys' and it is deemed acceptable to the moderators for them to do so. If you would, I would seriously call into question your judgement. On this forum, people openly have called Lawell a 'Fat Jap'. Given (correct me if im wrong) that you believe this is racist and therefor no different than calling Kamara a monkey, you are happy to converse with people who you believe to be just as bad.

Yes, @Blue Avenger was banned for racist posts. You have stated that there is no difference between calling 'Kamara a monkey' and racist abuse like the Celtic player endured. So you also must accept that there is no difference between @Blue Avenger offence to that done by posters who use racist terms like 'Jap'.

Given this, which do you think should be done?

1. Do you believe @Blue Avenger should be reinstated?

2. Do you believe that people should be banned for in the past using a racial slur when talking about Lawell?

It has to be one or the other.

 

[RobertN 390]

Drunken fans sing dodgy songs

Slow news day or smear campaign is the only question here

[TamCoopz 19,605]

People questioning whether @Blue Avengershould be brought back when he already has another 20 active accounts