Philippe Clement views amongst the support post-Kilmarnock

[Prso's headband 36,916]

9 minutes ago, Redmond7 said:

Oh I dont doubt he's been lied to, he pretty much made that clear. However, that doesn't, as you've said, prevent him from putting a team on the park that can win games. It doesn't explain why he is tactically inept and stupidly stubborn when it comes to setting up the team, picking players that fail time and again, makes the most ludicrous substitutions and is utterly incapable of changing a game in motion.  He's a busted flush, can go back to Belgium and rot for all I care now. None of the off field shit in any way excuses his inability as a manager.

It’s probably part of it tbh. Most people in their job if they are promised something and told the opposite will naturally drop off performance wise. In Clement’s case though we’ve fell off a cliff. 

[gmcf 35,629]

3 minutes ago, The Ibrox Derry said:

Had a great record v celtic aswell.

And carried himself better than any other manager of the last 35 years, bar Walter Smith. 

His greatest ability was he exuded confidence similar to what Souness did when he came here that rubbed off on the players. That and a backbone of Scottish talent with McGregor, Jack and Arfield that knew what playing for Rangers was all about.  For the first time in ages we showed no fear playing the tarriers, and it's been lacking ever since.

[Johnstone Burgh 1,692]

8 minutes ago, Malkytfp1 said:

How the fuck are there 24 people out there suggesting we keep Clement 😂

What do you think will happen by keeping him?

I voted keep for a number of reasons. 
 

The first point, and probably the most important one, is financial. We can all see that the playing squad budget has been slashed over the summer, and that more new players are required in virtually every position. His contract was extended in the summer, it won’t exactly be cheap to get rid of him and then appoint a replacement unless we go for an unemployed manager. We need as much funding as possible available for new additions to the squad, and giving Clement a pay off will eat into that, probably quite severely given the constraints we are operating under at present. 
 

Secondly, stability. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers every year. Getting rid of him now would be the third year in a row that we sack a manager before Christmas. Constant short-term thinking clearly isn’t getting us anywhere. It took Gerrard three seasons to win the league, before that we were no better off than we are right now. The perception that prospective managers will have of their job security will diminish if we keep sacking our managers at the first signs of trouble and this will reduce the quality of candidates we can attract. Is someone going to take the risk of coming in to try and build something if they have no space to build it? 
 

The squad is in a very poor state at the moment. Is it realistic to assume that a new manager will come in with the squad we have and win anything this season? I think we would be better off giving the manager time to continue building the squad and see if things improve. There will be plans in place for the upcoming transfer windows, a new manager could come in and rip those up, then we start again. Clement is stuck with a number of failed signings from the managers who came before him. So far, the signings he has made seem to be mostly okay. There are question marks over Propper, and Diomande given the outlay, and seemingly endless bad luck with Cortes, but Jefte, Barron, Bajrami, and Kasanwirjo look like they could do a turn for us. 
 

I just don’t see the point of chopping and changing managers on an annual basis. It didn’t work with Gio and Beale, although I’d argue we wouldn’t be any worse off if we’d stuck with Gio, and there is no sign it will work this time. We were in a similar position before Gerrard - we went through Warburton, Pedro and Murty in quick succession and only seemed to be going backwards. I don’t see why making the same mistake over and over again is going to give us a different result. We’d be better off giving him time to turn things around than trying to get McInnes, who probably wouldn’t even take the job, or a punt on some unemployed or obscure manager. 

[STEPPS BOY 78,047]

Let’s not beat about bush here. If the well has run dry and the cost cutting continues then we’ll be playing for second place every season and Mcinnes could come in and probably deliver and we would win the odd cup here and there.

If anyone at any level still  has any drive for us to succeed then it shouldn’t be Mcinnes.

We need a new manager/coach who has an ethos of high intensity attacking football. We’re in an era of inverted full backs, inverted wingers, overloads etc so a coach who has a record of this type of football.

It can’t be another possession minded coach who’ll bring a style of aimless playing about at back/midfield  and plays walking football.

[The Ibrox Derry 9,314]

14 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Let’s not beat about bush here. If the well has run dry and the cost cutting continues then we’ll be playing for second place every season and Mcinnes could come in and probably deliver and we would win the odd cup here and there.

If anyone at any level still  has any drive for us to succeed then it shouldn’t be Mcinnes.

We need a new manager/coach who has an ethos of high intensity attacking football. We’re in an era of inverted full backs, inverted wingers, overloads etc so a coach who has a record of this type of football.

It can’t be another possession minded coach who’ll bring a style of aimless playing about at back/midfield  and plays walking football.

Is this not the type of coach that every club is after though.

[Cooperson 1,041]

11 minutes ago, Johnstone Burgh said:

I voted keep for a number of reasons. 
 

The first point, and probably the most important one, is financial. We can all see that the playing squad budget has been slashed over the summer, and that more new players are required in virtually every position. His contract was extended in the summer, it won’t exactly be cheap to get rid of him and then appoint a replacement unless we go for an unemployed manager. We need as much funding as possible available for new additions to the squad, and giving Clement a pay off will eat into that, probably quite severely given the constraints we are operating under at present. 
 

Secondly, stability. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers every year. Getting rid of him now would be the third year in a row that we sack a manager before Christmas. Constant short-term thinking clearly isn’t getting us anywhere. It took Gerrard three seasons to win the league, before that we were no better off than we are right now. The perception that prospective managers will have of their job security will diminish if we keep sacking our managers at the first signs of trouble and this will reduce the quality of candidates we can attract. Is someone going to take the risk of coming in to try and build something if they have no space to build it? 
 

The squad is in a very poor state at the moment. Is it realistic to assume that a new manager will come in with the squad we have and win anything this season? I think we would be better off giving the manager time to continue building the squad and see if things improve. There will be plans in place for the upcoming transfer windows, a new manager could come in and rip those up, then we start again. Clement is stuck with a number of failed signings from the managers who came before him. So far, the signings he has made seem to be mostly okay. There are question marks over Propper, and Diomande given the outlay, and seemingly endless bad luck with Cortes, but Jefte, Barron, Bajrami, and Kasanwirjo look like they could do a turn for us. 
 

I just don’t see the point of chopping and changing managers on an annual basis. It didn’t work with Gio and Beale, although I’d argue we wouldn’t be any worse off if we’d stuck with Gio, and there is no sign it will work this time. We were in a similar position before Gerrard - we went through Warburton, Pedro and Murty in quick succession and only seemed to be going backwards. I don’t see why making the same mistake over and over again is going to give us a different result. We’d be better off giving him time to turn things around than trying to get McInnes, who probably wouldn’t even take the job, or a punt on some unemployed or obscure manager. 

He has been here a year and spent  millions, it's his team now and we are fucking shite, none the wiser about our style of play etc.

Aberdeen manager came in with a lot lesser budget than ours  and implemented his style of play straight away, it can be done

Scottish football is pish and we got bullied by Killie,

It's quite simple win the physical battles and we should be burying most of the Scottish teams easily on our budget week in week out

[SeparateEntityMyArse 55,601]

5 minutes ago, Johnstone Burgh said:

I voted keep for a number of reasons. 
 

The first point, and probably the most important one, is financial. We can all see that the playing squad budget has been slashed over the summer, and that more new players are required in virtually every position. His contract was extended in the summer, it won’t exactly be cheap to get rid of him and then appoint a replacement unless we go for an unemployed manager. We need as much funding as possible available for new additions to the squad, and giving Clement a pay off will eat into that, probably quite severely given the constraints we are operating under at present. 
 

Secondly, stability. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers every year. Getting rid of him now would be the third year in a row that we sack a manager before Christmas. Constant short-term thinking clearly isn’t getting us anywhere. It took Gerrard three seasons to win the league, before that we were no better off than we are right now. The perception that prospective managers will have of their job security will diminish if we keep sacking our managers at the first signs of trouble and this will reduce the quality of candidates we can attract. Is someone going to take the risk of coming in to try and build something if they have no space to build it? 
 

The squad is in a very poor state at the moment. Is it realistic to assume that a new manager will come in with the squad we have and win anything this season? I think we would be better off giving the manager time to continue building the squad and see if things improve. There will be plans in place for the upcoming transfer windows, a new manager could come in and rip those up, then we start again. Clement is stuck with a number of failed signings from the managers who came before him. So far, the signings he has made seem to be mostly okay. There are question marks over Propper, and Diomande given the outlay, and seemingly endless bad luck with Cortes, but Jefte, Barron, Bajrami, and Kasanwirjo look like they could do a turn for us. 
 

I just don’t see the point of chopping and changing managers on an annual basis. It didn’t work with Gio and Beale, although I’d argue we wouldn’t be any worse off if we’d stuck with Gio, and there is no sign it will work this time. We were in a similar position before Gerrard - we went through Warburton, Pedro and Murty in quick succession and only seemed to be going backwards. I don’t see why making the same mistake over and over again is going to give us a different result. We’d be better off giving him time to turn things around than trying to get McInnes, who probably wouldn’t even take the job, or a punt on some unemployed or obscure manager. 

There has to be belief that the manager can achieve success within a time frame you believe is fair otherwise you're just putting off an inevitable failure.

Do you believe Clement is capable of delivering us success? If so, based on what, and how long will it realistically take?

[kelvd1873 7,696]

5 hours ago, molesmole said:

Out the door for me.

Never really been a fan and want any manager in that won't play this  4 2 3 1 

Someone to see our weaknesses and fix them.

Get some intensity and attacking acumen.

This league is shite treat it with that contempt and go and win it. 

 

Clement is spent - he can't change it- players haven't bought into it at all.

Everyone can see hoofing it long for us to challange second balls or hope a winger out jumps and powers past a fullback ain't working.

 

This is so fucking accurate

[STEPPS BOY 78,047]

41 minutes ago, The Ibrox Derry said:

Is this not the type of coach that every club is after though.

No, not really.

We play in a quirky league were almost all of the games are against low blocks and our aim is to find a way of getting through it.

We’ve had coaches happy to play aboit between centre halves and midfield and then ultimately shelling high balls from wide and 40 yards from goal and 6ft 3 hairy arsed centre halves are happy just to stand and nod away.

[Moody Blue 10,134]

1 hour ago, Johnstone Burgh said:

I voted keep for a number of reasons. 
 

The first point, and probably the most important one, is financial. We can all see that the playing squad budget has been slashed over the summer, and that more new players are required in virtually every position. His contract was extended in the summer, it won’t exactly be cheap to get rid of him and then appoint a replacement unless we go for an unemployed manager. We need as much funding as possible available for new additions to the squad, and giving Clement a pay off will eat into that, probably quite severely given the constraints we are operating under at present. 
 

Secondly, stability. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers every year. Getting rid of him now would be the third year in a row that we sack a manager before Christmas. Constant short-term thinking clearly isn’t getting us anywhere. It took Gerrard three seasons to win the league, before that we were no better off than we are right now. The perception that prospective managers will have of their job security will diminish if we keep sacking our managers at the first signs of trouble and this will reduce the quality of candidates we can attract. Is someone going to take the risk of coming in to try and build something if they have no space to build it? 
 

The squad is in a very poor state at the moment. Is it realistic to assume that a new manager will come in with the squad we have and win anything this season? I think we would be better off giving the manager time to continue building the squad and see if things improve. There will be plans in place for the upcoming transfer windows, a new manager could come in and rip those up, then we start again. Clement is stuck with a number of failed signings from the managers who came before him. So far, the signings he has made seem to be mostly okay. There are question marks over Propper, and Diomande given the outlay, and seemingly endless bad luck with Cortes, but Jefte, Barron, Bajrami, and Kasanwirjo look like they could do a turn for us. 
 

I just don’t see the point of chopping and changing managers on an annual basis. It didn’t work with Gio and Beale, although I’d argue we wouldn’t be any worse off if we’d stuck with Gio, and there is no sign it will work this time. We were in a similar position before Gerrard - we went through Warburton, Pedro and Murty in quick succession and only seemed to be going backwards. I don’t see why making the same mistake over and over again is going to give us a different result. We’d be better off giving him time to turn things around than trying to get McInnes, who probably wouldn’t even take the job, or a punt on some unemployed or obscure manager. 

To some extent, I think many would agree with your sentiments mate, despite no likes (yet). I just fail to see what he’s trying to do, the tactics look inept in a very poor league, we get pumpings off the mhanks and he’s turned us into a weak, wee team. He looks spent, the players look like they’ve given up and the troops have turned. This movie may play out for another few weeks, or even months, but we know it ends in the inevitable. 

As I said, I’ve no idea what it is we’re trying to do and I said this a few weeks ago, if you put any other manager in from our league into our dugout, do you think we’d be any worse to watch?  If not, it means he’s bringing us nothing. His style of football is eye bleeding and he has a lot of his own players in now, who by the way don’t look suited for our league. 

Again, whilst some of your comments are valid about rinse, repeat, millions to pay him off (that’s on the board with the ridiculous contract extension when he had done nothing to deserve it), ripping up another squad, etc., we also just can’t accept this busted flush when there is no progress. 

[Redmond7 1,633]

1 minute ago, Moody Blue said:

 

To some extent, I think many would agree with your sentiments mate, despite no likes (yet). I just fail to see what he’s trying to do, the tactics look inept in a very poor league, we get pumpings off the mhanks and he’s turned us into a weak, wee team. He looks spent, the players look like they’ve given up and the  troops have turned. This movie may play out for another few weeks, or even months, but we know it ends in the inevitable. 

As I said, I’ve no idea what it is we’re trying to do and I said this a few weeks ago, if you put any other manager in from our league into our dugout, do you think we’d be any worse to watch?  If not, it means he’s bringing us nothing. His style of football is eye bleeding and he has a lot of his own players in now, who by the way don’t look suited for our league. 

Again, whilst some of your comments are valid about rinse, repeat, millions to pay him off (that’s in the board with the ridiculous contract extension when he had done nothing to deserve it), ripping up another squad, etc., we also just can’t accept this busted flush when there is no progress. 

And this is the thing, at some point Clement is going. I don't believe anyone can now see a way back from here for him, he's had his chance. So the problem then is, do we just roll on with the bust flush, perhaps hoping things change, waiting for boardroom changes etc or do we just offload him now and then see what happens because despite genuinely now wanting rid of him, I can also see the other side of the argument. But for me, I don't see any point keeping, what would it achieve other than saving a few pounds  short term. The answer eludes me, the only thing I know for sure is, the status quo isn't working.

[Madina 4,307]

Any time we play at Rugby Park the pitch is mentioned as a factor by a lot of people, whether it's fans, media or people within the club.  We won't have that excuse next season. Throw in the fact that a rank rotten St Johnstone won 0-3 there this season and it's just another sound bite. I've been to a fair few games at Rugby Park since they introduced the "plastic" pitch and we've played decent and lost. Yesterday we didn't ever look like scoring and that wasn't down to the surface, it's down to clueless tactics and clueless players 

[BigDak 851]

3 hours ago, Colin Traive said:

I agree with a lot of that but we again find ourselves in the position where the patient continues to deteriorate and we delay any decisive action until it’s too late.

Having backed him until now, I think he’s done all he can. He was dealt a shit hand in the January window (“no money to spend”), a different story from what he was told when joining a few months earlier and the transfer carnage of this summer was just too much to ask in such limited time, again with pennies to spend.

As we are supposedly seeking new CEO and DOF, there is no way he will be sacked before one or both are in place. To act before our new ‘leaders’ are in place would be mismanagement that even our board wouldn’t consider.

The priority has to be to get hard nosed men of substance, presence and authority on board ASAP, men who will tackle this decisively.

Yeah, I agree. The priority is getting the boardroom sorted.

[murzo 7,450]

1 hour ago, STEPPS BOY said:

 

We need a new manager/coach who has an ethos of high intensity attacking football. We’re in an era of inverted full backs, inverted wingers, overloads etc so a coach who has a record of this type of football.

It can’t be another possession minded coach who’ll bring a style of aimless playing about at back/midfield  and plays walking football.

Is that not Clement was meant to bring? I’m sure when he came he talked about being fast, attacking etc but there’s nothing. It’s not even like you can see what he’s trying to implement. If there was then you’d stick with him but it’s just turgid dire football with not even a glimpse of improvement. No idea who can deliver it but it’s not Clement.

[FlippinEck 3,857]

The one thing I don't get is if Kasanwirjo on to move Tav up his what he is doing to change the game, why not start like that? Just baffles me.

[Blueshirts 11]

6 hours ago, Carnbroe Bear said:

This assumption that sacking Clemete,  McInnes would be the preferred choice is foolish.

This is the same guy who said 'no thank' you years ago, so what would he see in this club now, especially the way things are with the Board, to convince him to take the job now if it was offered?

We are probably in a worse state now than where we were all those years ago.

We are a shit show-run club, everything we do or touch is toxic but we are still Glasgow Rangers and we should never consider anyone who previously and publically slapped us in the face

super Ally did not sign until the third time of asking 

[Kents_Hook 1,714]

30 minutes ago, murzo said:

Is that not Clement was meant to bring? I’m sure when he came he talked about being fast, attacking etc but there’s nothing. It’s not even like you can see what he’s trying to implement. If there was then you’d stick with him but it’s just turgid dire football with not even a glimpse of improvement. No idea who can deliver it but it’s not Clement.

the pace, the strength, the agility and balance we once had is all GONE, we replaced 6 key players and replaced them with utter dross who are not fit, always on the medical table and others that can do no wrong in his eyes, whatever of those little attributes we had left has been completely coached out of by that fraudster in a suit.

his football, his formation, his tactics and his teal selections and game management need binned asap, we gave the cunt a bullet proof vest and now we're stuck with the pile of crap.

[BookWorm 4,765]

As it stands, the overwhelming consensus is to sack him. Won't happen unfortunately but it will get worse before it gets better with the way he is faffing about.

[NeoGeo7 11,378]

2 minutes ago, BookWorm said:

As it stands, the overwhelming consensus is to sack him. Won't happen unfortunately but it will get worse before it gets better with the way he is faffing about.

You’d think the board have learnt when to spot it’s the end but instead they wait until we inevitably drop more points before doing anything.

[KBOO72 4,865]

Fuck Gerrard btw. 

Rat bastard. 

[KeyserSoze 15,307]

Clement has convinced his employers that this is a long term thing with developing players.

So convinced were they that they extended his contract and have bit hard into that onion allowing for a disaster of a season followed by improvement over the next couple of seasons. 
 

This is the reason he won’t be sacked anytime soon 

 

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,475]

4 hours ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Let’s not beat about bush here. If the well has run dry and the cost cutting continues then we’ll be playing for second place every season and Mcinnes could come in and probably deliver and we would win the odd cup here and there.

If anyone at any level still  has any drive for us to succeed then it shouldn’t be Mcinnes.

We need a new manager/coach who has an ethos of high intensity attacking football. We’re in an era of inverted full backs, inverted wingers, overloads etc so a coach who has a record of this type of football.

It can’t be another possession minded coach who’ll bring a style of aimless playing about at back/midfield  and plays walking football.

Agree with all of this, particularly on why it just can’t be McInnes.

Clement’s not a possession minded coach though.

[Amokachi 3,457]

8 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

Clement has convinced his employers that this is a long term thing with developing players.

So convinced were they that they extended his contract and have bit hard into that onion allowing for a disaster of a season followed by improvement over the next couple of seasons. 
 

This is the reason he won’t be sacked anytime soon 

 

The board and Clement know the game they are in.  
 

If things get worse than they are atm the fans will ultimately make that decision.  

[STEPPS BOY 78,047]

2 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

Agree with all of this, particularly on why it just can’t be McInnes.

Clement’s not a possession minded coach though.

Gio was. Gerrard was.

Clement isn’t the first coach to struggle with low block. It’s went on for years now.

[Malkytfp1 19,777]

2 hours ago, Johnstone Burgh said:

I voted keep for a number of reasons. 
 

The first point, and probably the most important one, is financial. We can all see that the playing squad budget has been slashed over the summer, and that more new players are required in virtually every position. His contract was extended in the summer, it won’t exactly be cheap to get rid of him and then appoint a replacement unless we go for an unemployed manager. We need as much funding as possible available for new additions to the squad, and giving Clement a pay off will eat into that, probably quite severely given the constraints we are operating under at present. 
 

Secondly, stability. We can’t keep chopping and changing managers every year. Getting rid of him now would be the third year in a row that we sack a manager before Christmas. Constant short-term thinking clearly isn’t getting us anywhere. It took Gerrard three seasons to win the league, before that we were no better off than we are right now. The perception that prospective managers will have of their job security will diminish if we keep sacking our managers at the first signs of trouble and this will reduce the quality of candidates we can attract. Is someone going to take the risk of coming in to try and build something if they have no space to build it? 
 

The squad is in a very poor state at the moment. Is it realistic to assume that a new manager will come in with the squad we have and win anything this season? I think we would be better off giving the manager time to continue building the squad and see if things improve. There will be plans in place for the upcoming transfer windows, a new manager could come in and rip those up, then we start again. Clement is stuck with a number of failed signings from the managers who came before him. So far, the signings he has made seem to be mostly okay. There are question marks over Propper, and Diomande given the outlay, and seemingly endless bad luck with Cortes, but Jefte, Barron, Bajrami, and Kasanwirjo look like they could do a turn for us. 
 

I just don’t see the point of chopping and changing managers on an annual basis. It didn’t work with Gio and Beale, although I’d argue we wouldn’t be any worse off if we’d stuck with Gio, and there is no sign it will work this time. We were in a similar position before Gerrard - we went through Warburton, Pedro and Murty in quick succession and only seemed to be going backwards. I don’t see why making the same mistake over and over again is going to give us a different result. We’d be better off giving him time to turn things around than trying to get McInnes, who probably wouldn’t even take the job, or a punt on some unemployed or obscure manager. 

I've taken all your points and tried to bullet them to reply.

1. "Financial"...

my counter to this is with Clement we will likely finish third and potentially be financially worse off. We are paying the Muppet until 2028. It doesn't matter if we sack now or next year we will be paying him either way.

2. "Stability" - constant chopping and changing. 

This doesn't mean we should stick by a manager who clearly isn't good enough. Clement has had a year here to implement a style or an identity. He's failed to do that. Even if fans could see that with us creating chances but having no striker or being a solid unit or something,. anything then we might have more patience. He has shown fuck all.

3."The squad is in a very poor state at the moment"

Ok granted, we're short on a few players. But you can't tell me we don't have better players than Kilmarnock? Or Motherwell's second string team who almost got something against us? Or Naismith's hearts team and so on. These draws and defeats were hardly snatch and grab also. They were even games against bottom half opposition. Games where he continues selecting the same players failing in the same positions, Tom Lawrence etc. I'd be more aligned if he even tried breading youth players into those positions. Try adding some legs and some long term value but he simply persists with the same failing players then makes even more baffling subs to counter that.

I just think none of the reasons you listed are a strong enough case to keep him. He's done and I can't wait to see the back of him.